Topsteptrader

[shiko2000]

Very good post Mav. I disagree on few small points when it comes to success.
By edge you probably mean plan that works. The plan itself must be total package encompassing everything from risk control per trade, per day, profit targets, trade managements, few plans as markets conditions go not depending upon trending days only and consistency of implementation of course no matter what. I do not believe in trader picking opportunity and waiting waiting. No. No one knows what market can do next moment. I will take all signals that are according to my plan and trade all and every day outside of those I do not trade according to the plan.
Trader must be reasonable. making $100K with $10K-25K is not reasonable. Hence trader needs patience while he built his account. It was made actually but it all comes to psychology. Most just quit and what it all right now. With good plan, risk control and consistency account can be built in a few years to pretty large amount.
I made calculation based upon my combines since I started trading my plan and ZS only. Were I trading live, I would build by now cushion good for already 4 contracts.
While not $100K a year I would be able to take some $ already for living while continue building account.
For TST live trader the most important is to be consistent in everything and do not do any dumb thing. I can compare it to spaceship gathering speed necessary to leave the Earth orbit... which is Jr. Trader status plus I think another $2000-3000 in cushion. From my perspective I need to have a at least 4 days of cushion for each contract added considering those 4 days are my max allowed losses as per my plan.
Again, market state can help a lot but ultimately it is trader implementation of good plan with consistency and keeping losses down while taking profits in consistent manner too.
Also, I do not believe in diversification. Trader needs to specialize in certain market.
I decided to go with soybeans complex.
It suits my schedule and yes, allows me to work part time while I am going to build my account.
Any trader who can trade like those few TST guys that hangs there under such parameters should not have problem getting more funding.
In my experience it is actually not a big problem to find the money if one knows where and how to look and have solid track record.
TST program practically helped me to make a huge turn in my mental state and then trading. It has been very important step for me to commit to TST Combines and looks like I have done may be 12-14 of them since Dec 2012. Long time. One must be committed.
Now I am looking forward to start live trading with TST and I continue trading practice account given by them exactly as I was trading Combines and going to trade live funds.

Shiko, I have tried several times to start this dialogue before the Pekelo's of the world interrupt with the "scam" BS and the owners are making billions. What you are asking lies at the crux of the matter. And in the end, it reveals the real issue. The fact of the matter is, most of the guys getting backing probably got lucky to begin with. Remember, it was Pekelo early on who was instructing guys on how to "cheat" the system to "win" the combine. In which I responded what is the point to "winning"? The point is NOT to win but to learn. Because winning in and of itself serves no purpose.

I think what happens with a lot of the live guys is they just kind of lose interest. I mean, some guy without an edge gets lucky and passes. Let's say this guy is a very disciplined trader. So he'll hang in there and have his good days and control his bad days. But then what? Say he is 28. Say he is engaged to get married. Say he has some student loan debt. I mean the guy is not making money. At some point, time is the real enemy. This is not just true of TST but really trading in general.

I've been on this board since 2002. I've been trading since the mid 1990's. The life cycle of the avg ET user is about 18 months to 2 years. They come on here. They read a little. They trade a little. They read a little more, start posting and after about the two year mark, they see the writing on the wall and move on. I've seen this with 1000's of posters here now.

The names who stick around are usually the "older" guys who play with their IRA or 401k money in retirement. They come here to talk shop and pretend they are traders but really they are dividend collectors lonely and looking to chat.

The real discussion that I've "attempted" to have on several occasions is do these guys have any edge? The answer of course is no. But very few people here are making that connection. Instead it's the rules, it's the owners, it's the software, the commissions. It's typical ET.

Now one guy was screaming about how little these guys make and how a mcdonalds worker makes more money. Well, that is true of ALL traders. LOL. Look, unless you are getting base plus bonus at a real prop firm, most of the guys here are working an IT job during the day and trading here and there around shifts acting like a BSD pretending like they are career traders. The truth is the amount of capital one needs to pull a decent wage out of the market is pretty substantial. I'm sorry, I don't buy into the 25k account guy making 100k a year trading story. I've been around too long for that. The guy or girl with 25k is NEVER going to be able to compete with a salaried job. You are going to need several hundred thousand. And even then, from a tax standpoint is horribly inefficient.

And here of course is the irony of it all. TST, is itself in the same boat. As a small business, their probability of success is as small as most of the combiners. Like most small businesses, their overhead and payroll will ultimately take them down as well. Again, time is their biggest enemy as well.

 

[Commodity_Trader]

--In my experience it is actually not a big problem to find the money if one knows where and how to look and have solid track record.

--TST program practically helped me to make a huge turn in my mental state and then trading. It has been very important step for me to commit to TST Combines and looks like I have done may be 12-14 of them since Dec 2012. Long time. One must be committed.
.

Shiko,please explain more about this ,how it's possible to find money if someone already have an edge..Marv has replied to this question many times which finally he said someone should have physical presentation in prop firms in addition to have an edge..

regarding 12-14 combines rollover that's really amazing.

 

[shiko2000]

Hi CT, how are you doing? Have you started Combine?

I did not have 12-14 roll over Combines. I had 6-7 Combines all losing before I got first rollover and then had 4 rollovers in a row. Then paid for 2 and now got refund for the last Combine after I made the target. It means that I only spent $175 on Combines in the past 9 months.
Regarding funding you have to advertise yourself and look every place imaginable.
Myfxbook might look like cr***p which but occasionally there is legit sources of $$$ there. Looking for funding is part of our job.
I am personally decided to go with TST and been pushing my Combines for a year and a half and will open my own account in December.

Shiko,please explain more about this ,how it's possible to find money if someone already have an edge..Marv has replied to this question many times which finally he said someone should have physical presentation in prop firms in addition to have an edge..

regarding 12-14 combines rollover that's really amazing.

 

[Maverick74]

I thought TST's capital partners front the risk and they just run the scouting program?

I won't testify that I know who the backers are. But if "I" were doing this as a business, the logic that makes sense is, I would create two separate entities. That's usually how I deduce how things work, just think about it from the standpoint if I were making the decisions. This is actually good for the trader if you think about it. If I ran this and my TST entity was sued for some reason, the equity that traders have built up in the other entity would be protected. Now I'm sure this is not the reason why they did it this way, but that does happen to be a benefit.

 

[Maverick74]

Very good post Mav. I disagree on few small points when it comes to success.
By edge you probably mean plan that works. The plan itself must be total package encompassing everything from risk control per trade, per day, profit targets, trade managements, few plans as markets conditions go not depending upon trending days only and consistency of implementation of course no matter what. I do not believe in trader picking opportunity and waiting waiting. No. No one knows what market can do next moment. I will take all signals that are according to my plan and trade all and every day outside of those I do not trade according to the plan.
Trader must be reasonable. making $100K with $10K-25K is not reasonable. Hence trader needs patience while he built his account. It was made actually but it all comes to psychology. Most just quit and what it all right now. With good plan, risk control and consistency account can be built in a few years to pretty large amount.
I made calculation based upon my combines since I started trading my plan and ZS only. Were I trading live, I would build by now cushion good for already 4 contracts.
While not $100K a year I would be able to take some $ already for living while continue building account.
For TST live trader the most important is to be consistent in everything and do not do any dumb thing. I can compare it to spaceship gathering speed necessary to leave the Earth orbit... which is Jr. Trader status plus I think another $2000-3000 in cushion. From my perspective I need to have a at least 4 days of cushion for each contract added considering those 4 days are my max allowed losses as per my plan.
Again, market state can help a lot but ultimately it is trader implementation of good plan with consistency and keeping losses down while taking profits in consistent manner too.
Also, I do not believe in diversification. Trader needs to specialize in certain market.
I decided to go with soybeans complex.
It suits my schedule and yes, allows me to work part time while I am going to build my account.
Any trader who can trade like those few TST guys that hangs there under such parameters should not have problem getting more funding.
In my experience it is actually not a big problem to find the money if one knows where and how to look and have solid track record.
TST program practically helped me to make a huge turn in my mental state and then trading. It has been very important step for me to commit to TST Combines and looks like I have done may be 12-14 of them since Dec 2012. Long time. One must be committed.
Now I am looking forward to start live trading with TST and I continue trading practice account given by them exactly as I was trading Combines and going to trade live funds.

Shiko, don't ever listen to me or anyone else that says you can't do something. If you think you can do it and you are willing to make the sacrifices and take the risks to find out, do it! The worst feeling in life is regret. Especially when you near the end of your life and you are dumbfounded why you didn't take the chances you could have taken. It's a horrible way to leave this world. So go find out!

 

[Maverick74]

it's the best post i've seen in ET.i'm passionate to know how Maverick prepared that several hundred thousand initial equity ?
TST can be used in order to prepare a modest trading account..?
and if TST has any other advantage rather than "learning" stuff?

Commodity Trader, I was very lucky. A lot of the guys around my age came into the markets at the right place and the right time. I paid my way through college trading options during the most ridiculous tech bubble ever and then was lucky enough to trade at one of the most infamous equity prop firms ever in NY during the height of the daytrading bubble. I'll take all the credit for the hard work and sacrifices I made, but I can't take credit for the opportunity. It was there, it was in front of me, I took it. It's that simple. And if it wasn't, I would probably be a commercial pilot today (I had my private license at the time).

In fact all the guys I was around at the time shared in that same opportunity. We made enough money to coast for a very very very long time. Having capital is a godsend. It's really a game changer. A lot of guys today are fortunate that they had good jobs and maxed out their 401ks at work. I have many friends my age who have been working for 15 years in various fields who have accumulated anywhere from 300k to 750k in savings in retirement accounts alone. Now they are in their 40's and using that money to trade. They also have a big cushion. Again, capital changes everything.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, TST gives you a window into your future. If you are doing these combines and failing and working harder and harder, that's a good sign that you want it. If that hard work shows incremental improvement over time, you might just have something. Now you may never pass a combine or ever get funded at TST, but who knows, you might land a trading gig, start a CTA or get a job, save some money, and use that money to fund yourself. But you have to start somewhere. I feel really bad. I get 100's of PMs from guys asking for advice, where can they go to get funding. It's a much different world today. It was so easy to get started in the 80's, 90's and early 00's.

 

[logicaltrader]

...

I've said this before and I'll say it again, TST gives you a window into your future. If you are doing these combines and failing and working harder and harder, that's a good sign that you want it. If that hard work shows incremental improvement over time, you might just have something. Now you may never pass a combine or ever get funded at TST, but who knows, you might land a trading gig, start a CTA or get a job, save some money, and use that money to fund yourself. But you have to start somewhere. I feel really bad. I get 100's of PMs from guys asking for advice, where can they go to get funding. It's a much different world today. It was so easy to get started in the 80's, 90's and early 00's.

Thanks Maverick, your earlier post disillusioned me. It sort of shook me a bit and I was back to square one asking the basic question - what freaking chance do I have? The second post helps understand that this is not all futile.

I have gone through 19 combines, 5 rollovers, failed the LTP twice. The difference between the first couple and the last couple of combines is night and day. I have come a looooong way and become a much better trader. Your other thread is a godsend (I promise I will stop repeating this ).

 

[Commodity_Trader]

Hi CT, how are you doing? Have you started Combine?

I did not have 12-14 roll over Combines. I had 6-7 Combines all losing before I got first rollover and then had 4 rollovers in a row. Then paid for 2 and now got refund for the last Combine after I made the target. It means that I only spent $175 on Combines in the past 9 months.
Regarding funding you have to advertise yourself and look every place imaginable.
Myfxbook might look like cr***p which but occasionally there is legit sources of $$$ there. Looking for funding is part of our job.
I am personally decided to go with TST and been pushing my Combines for a year and a half and will open my own account in December.

i deferred my combine for the third time to a near future ,but i will participate in TST challenge tomorrow and after that i hope i can start combine . BTW what's your id name on TST ?

 

[Commodity_Trader]

-- I'll take all the credit for the hard work and sacrifices I made, but I can't take credit for the opportunity.


--I've said this before and I'll say it again, TST gives you a window into your future. If that hard work shows incremental improvement over time, you might just have something

as you said you had two success factors,in addition to your hard work toward your edge ,you had enough chance .in the past there was no TST.so can we consider TST (ability to win a combine and keep consistency on that) as our opportunity factor ?

PS:i have spent recent months to adjust my strategy metric to TST parameters after you mentioned a lot of making sense reasons/discussions regarding TST ...

 

[shiko2000]

Thanks Mav, but I actually do not listen to no one.
To succeed in this one should have a very healthy dose of pigheadedness.
I remember Marty Schwartz was losing money for 10+ years even despite working in this business and Paul Tudor Jones also had huge losses in the beginning.
The most important is to learn lessons and keep improving.

I know that it might have been easier to get funded back 80's start of 00's, but as I mentioned good profitable trader especially one who can make profit within TST parameters will always find the way.
I think it simply harder to get funded now but opportunities still exists. TST is one of those.

Shiko, don't ever listen to me or anyone else that says you can't do something. If you think you can do it and you are willing to make the sacrifices and take the risks to find out, do it! The worst feeling in life is regret. Especially when you near the end of your life and you are dumbfounded why you didn't take the chances you could have taken. It's a horrible way to leave this world. So go find out!