TopstepTrader Q & A

[MuskokaJoe]

Would have been easy to cheat ... just set up the combine on a delayed feed. Surprised they never tried that. Hoag though I think is a pretty straight shooter with a good reputation. Ditto Eddie.

Can't say that about everyone involved up the chain there.

 

[atawil]

do you require legal documents from the members enrolled in your program? if yes what are they ?

 

[traderjo]

@ranger64 - Each brokerage can set their own day trading requirements, which vary by time of day and product. We don't base our account sizes off of any one brokerage. In fact, our intraday margins are thousands of dollars per contract, not $400. And we certainly wouldn't recommend traders trade 5 contracts with $2,700 in an account. Hope this helps answer your question!

Best,
TopstepTrader

How many thousands per contract? Can you be more specific? for example ES?
For the sake of transparency
I think the question was about is your "account size" is notional or actual $?
For example for 1 ES trading intraday with direct account with a Introductory broker the margin can be as low as $500 for day trading
but with more conservative broker it could 3-4000 even for day trading 1 ES
I asked this before also but conveniently TST rep does not answer!
I mean any tom dick and harry can say I will fund you for $125000 by just having $500 with a introductory broker! forgetting to mention that it is 125K notional ( approx 1 ES, using futures contracts own leverage + broker leverage)

 

[MichalTr]

I'm not Topstep employee or representative but I think I can give you guys some idea how it works. First of all - if you go with TST there are 4 brokers (with whom they cooperate) - Tradovate, NTB (Ninja), Stage5, Cunningham. You can easily check margins at this companies. For ES (day/full): 500/6380 (Tradovate, NTB, Stage5). So let's look at 50k combine:
5 (max lot) x 6380 = 31 900, + 2000 (max drawdown) = 33 900. Of course you can say you would use 500 day margin (but you need to know what is considering as "day"), than it would be 5 x 500 = 2500, + 2000 = 4500. But the question is - do you really want to trade up to 5 lots with your own 4500 account (that's a bit "brave" idea) ? I think we should forget about combine names, day/full margins and take a look at this from the other side. You pay 165/mo for "50 k combine". You can passed both combine and LTP after one month (then you subscription is cancelled). You need also pay for data (as pro), so for CME 85/mo. 265+85 = 350$. So you pay 350$ for 2000$ (max drawdown and you don't need your money to cover at least 4500). For 100k combine it's 325$+85=410$ for 3000$, for 150k combine it's 375$+85=460$ for 4500$. So you can calculate that for every 1$ you spent you get: 5,71$, 7,32$ or 9,78$. No matter how you looked at this - it's good deal. And if you don't want to split with anyone - that's still fine - you can take your 5k (no split) and go do your business (if you made it). Of course it is good deal if you are not one of guys who are paying month after month after month after month ... But still if you want to have some strict rules, be a part of something and you want to spend your money on it - you can pay month after month as long as you want - just your choice. From my perspective there are more pros thank cons - and the most important one (pure economic factor) speaks for the Topstep.

 

[traderjo]

So is the 50K actual or Notional? and why TST not answering these questions directly?
Say Mr A does TST according to your calculations he pays 165+85 (I dont know why you had 265 there?) so $250 and assuming he passes the "Combine" in first month itself gets to trade 5 ES contracts both intraday or overnight? or only Intraday! Please clarify. with a daily drawdown of $2000 which equates to $400 per contract correct? once this is clarified we can compare this to "doing it onn your own" Please try and understand the diff bet notional and actual

 

[Xela]

gets to trade 5 ES contracts both intraday or overnight? or only Intraday! Please clarify.

There's no overnight trading at all, with TST (but "overnight" is a technical term meaning between 3.10pm and 5.00pm CT, as these are futures: you need to close all positions before 3.10pm but can start trading again for "the next day" at 5.00pm CT).

with a daily drawdown of $2000 which equates to $400 per contract correct?

Not correct.

You start, according to the scaling plan, trading a maximum of 2 contracts. You need to make some profit before building up to 5 (and more) contracts, but then as you build up further profits, your permitted drawdown also increases.

The $2,000 figure you've quoted above is the trailing maximum drawdown, not the daily loss limit (that's initially $1,000, for those qualifying via the 5-contract Combine).

You can see the scaling plan here, the daily loss limit here, and the trailing maximum drawdown here.

why TST not answering these questions directly?

They've done so countless times, in many threads here. But they certainly don't do so reliably. My guess is that they perhaps sometimes get dispirited by the endless misinformation and misinterpretation (and sometimes even prejudiced nonsense) posted here about their business, and lose interest.

I agree with your inference that it would be helpful if they posted here more regularly, but I don't altogether blame them, given some of what's said here (that's not a dig at yourself, in case it needs mentioning!!).

I also agree that it would be better all round if they referred to a "3-contract Combine", "5-contract Combine", and so on, rather than "$30k and $50k Combines", and have said so many times, but they seem to want - for whatever reason - to stick with their current terminology, in spite of their doing so apparently causing some problems and misunderstandings.

 

[traderjo]

So since we are talking about day trading only , apples to apples at 2 Es contracts is there a diff between trading for yourself using $500 Day trading margins that many brokers provide (where you keep 100% of profits and losses and pay hardly any data fee) and paying these so called Prop firms a monthly fee ! There is a very legit reason why these questions arise, becasue with this business model there is a fundamental issue of is it really true prop or a grab for "monthly fees" hoping many will fail and only few will need funding.. I mean to start with why cant these people clarify Notional or real , I can fund you for Notion Es value of 100+K by just having my $500 in a broker account! and in if I claim in marketing that Look We fund you to 125000 that would be misleading wont it be

 

[p0box4]

There is a very legit reason why these questions arise, becasue with this business model there is a fundamental issue of is it really true prop or a grab for "monthly fees" hoping many will fail.

Since TST started charging for both the combine and the so called stage 2 (the old FTP) which used to be free up until January it is clear they are in to grab the monthly fees.

I would have thought they might adjust there business a bit to be more competitive with the OneUp monthly fees, however they just got more expensive. Unless of course you manage to avoid the DD and hit the target twice in one month.

 

[MichalTr]

So is the 50K actual or Notional? and why TST not answering these questions directly?
Say Mr A does TST according to your calculations he pays 165+85 (I dont know why you had 265 there?) so $250 and assuming he passes the "Combine" in first month itself gets to trade 5 ES contracts both intraday or overnight? or only Intraday! Please clarify. with a daily drawdown of $2000 which equates to $400 per contract correct? once this is clarified we can compare this to "doing it onn your own" Please try and understand the diff bet notional and actual

Of course 250$ (I was writing it late ). To give you answers:
About trading at night:
"All positions must be closed prior to 3:10:00 PM CT. You can then restart trading at 5:00:00 PM CT. An asterisk (*) indicates a product with an earlier close than 3:10:00 PM CT and/or a later open than 5:00:00 PM CT. If the product you are trading has an asterisk please refer to the CME site and follow the times listed there". So you just need to compare it to "intraday" at the broker. In Tradovate e.g. "Reduced day margins are currently available from 6:00 PM EST to 4:45 PM EST"

Not "daily drawdown" - just "drawdown" for your account.

And I think with information I gave you so far you can compare what you want.
But still - I think you see this from wrong perspective
If you want clear answer about just "names" of combines then yes - advertised ammount doesn't match reality. But it is still very good deal - I wrote you calculations before.

 

[Pekelo]

So is the 50K actual or Notional?

Imaginary is the right word...