TopstepTrader and Patak Trading Partners- Easy to read QUESTIONS and ANSWERS

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Quote from volente_00:

Valid questions to a potential business partner are not a personal attack.

Even the guys who posted their failure of the combine on here have not been attacked so what the hell are you talking about ?


I'm still on the fence on tst but a lot of the rules do not make sense if there true intent is on backing traders to make 40% off of.

Are you kidding me? We had 5 threads going running non stop. One guy specifically started a thread against me personally calling me out as running a scam when I in fact have nothing to do with this firm. That thread alone launched about 300 attacks on me. Then the other threads, including the journals were full of attacks, not even against TST but against the participants. You must have a really bad memory. LOL.
 
Quote from r-in:

I guess that is a story that sounds good, and in my years of trading I have heard the various vendors who have a similiar story. "oh you need to trade the hours I am showing you". What are those hours? Really, they contact you , but they can't demonstrate their success to ET? OK!

I have no idea what you are talking about. Obviously English is your 3rd language. They don't tell you what hours to trade. "I" was suggesting that you trade during your slow time whenever that is. They don't care when you trade or how often you trade. Seriously where do you come up with this stuff.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

If you actually did trade for a living you would know that one can easily make 6 cents on nat gas in a few seconds on an inventory spike. If this Pekelo guy worked half as hard on his own trading as he did playing detective here, he wouldn't have to subsidize his income through delivering pizzas. BTW, he has admitted this on ET.

That's a cheapshot against Pekelo, he admitted he was not an expert on nat gas. The question he posed is valid, as these type of trades appeared on the last three funded reports.

I also was surprised by this particular report and thought perhaps it was some type of software glitch.

It shows a gross profit of $2,400, on back to back weeks, with 8 contracts total, one winning trade on each of the days.

So if my math is correct, since it was one winning trade, that is 60 ticks at $10/tick on NG, on 4 lots, making it $2,400 gross less the $20 commission for a net of $2,380 total, in "zero" seconds.

Either this trader is brilliant, and has figured out a way to maximize the odds of passing the combine, or TST is now allowing more liberal standards for measuring risk. I've looked at prior funded reports, and these types of trades were not typical.

If this were a live account, how would he have managed risk in case the trade went the other way on an OCO?

I'm no expert on nat gas either, so if the "experts" would chime in on how you would have placed such a trade to avoid the max daily draw, that would help understand this type of strategy.
 
Quote from ScalperJoe:

That's a cheapshot against Pekelo, he admitted he was not an expert on nat gas. The question he posed is valid, as these type of trades appeared on the last three funded reports.

I also was surprised by this particular report and thought perhaps it was some type of software glitch.

It shows a gross profit of $2,400, on back to back weeks, with 8 contracts total, one winning trade on each of the days.

So if my math is correct, since it was one winning trade, that is 60 ticks at $10/tick on NG, on 4 lots, making it $2,400 gross less the $20 commission for a net of $2,380 total, in "zero" seconds.

Either this trader is brilliant, and has figured out a way to maximize the odds of passing the combine, or TST is now allowing more liberal standards for measuring risk. I've looked at prior funded reports, and these types of trades were not typical.

If this were a live account, how would he have managed risk in case the trade went the other way on an OCO?

I'm no expert on nat gas either, so if the "experts" would chime in on how you would have placed such a trade to avoid the max daily draw, that would help understand this type of strategy.

I'm not defending the trade. I simply made the comment that the trade was possible. There was a time a few years back where natty moved 30 to 40 cents on a spike. So 6 cents is nothing. Yes, I completely agree it's a stupid strategy. There is NO way to control the risk. My bet is a lot of guys try to do this with crude and nat gas on the inventory numbers and hit their daily loss limit. Some will get lucky and hit it. I do know Michael mentioned to me that any guy that does this they make them do an extended combine meaning they have to prove they can make money outside of gaming the inventory number. You are NOT seeing that extended combine though. I only know about it because of the two traders here who got backed and was asked to do the extended combine. So yes, whoever that funded trader was that got lucky, he was most likely asked to do an extended combine and passed but TST is only showing the combine where he paid for.

I don't know if this answers your question but there is no conspiracy. I never said it was a good way to trade and quite frankly it's pretty stupid. I actually DO know prop firms that engage in this trade but not manually. They are HFT firms that get in right on the first print. They do this in bonds on the jobs number as well. Again, I also think that is stupid but people have a right to do stupid things with their money.

One other thing, if a trade is on for less then a minute, it probably registers as zero. That is why the duration is showing zero.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

Are you kidding me? We had 5 threads going running non stop. One guy specifically started a thread against me personally calling me out as running a scam when I in fact have nothing to do with this firm. That thread alone launched about 300 attacks on me. Then the other threads, including the journals were full of attacks, not even against TST but against the participants. You must have a really bad memory. LOL.


You were not attacked for your combine failure. You got attacked for brown nosing tst and to be honest your antics made you look like a shill for them. As a longtime member I believe you based on your word but there are a lot of bullshit scams in trading and your defense of tst gave the appearance of something more.
 
Quote from volente_00:

You were not attacked for your combine failure. You got attacked for brown nosing tst and to be honest your antics made you look like a shill for them. As a longtime member I believe you based on your word but there are a lot of bullshit scams in trading and your defense of tst gave the appearance of something more.

So first you say I was not attacked and then you say I was attacked for brown nosing TST. Nice logic. Anyway, nothing I said about TST was not true. I simply regurgitated information that was right off their website. There is nothing to defend. Either something is true or it is not. Very binary. If it's true, it doesn't need defending, only needs to be stated. If it's not true, you can't defend it.

Here's the bottom line. NOBODY should be attacked. Not the vendor, not the trader, not a thread participant. Act like an adult. This is not P&R or Chit Chat.

Yes, there are a lot of scams out there. And Baron does NOT let them advertise here. The scams usually come from guys pretending to be members of the site where they try to sell something. They are NOT sponsors. Can you name a single sponsor of ET that was running a scam? I can't think of any "paid" sponsors. I could be wrong and I'll admit it if I am.

Baron has some liability if he is taking money from someone who is defrauding his members.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

So first you say I was not attacked and then you say I was attacked for brown nosing TST. Nice logic. Anyway, nothing I said about TST was not true. I simply regurgitated information that was right off their website. There is nothing to defend. Either something is true or it is not. Very binary. If it's true, it doesn't need defending, only needs to be stated. If it's not true, you can't defend it.

Here's the bottom line. NOBODY should be attacked. Not the vendor, not the trader, not a thread participant. Act like an adult. This is not P&R or Chit Chat.

Yes, there are a lot of scams out there. And Baron does NOT let them advertise here. The scams usually come from guys pretending to be members of the site where they try to sell something. They are NOT sponsors. Can you name a single sponsor of ET that was running a scam? I can't think of any "paid" sponsors. I could be wrong and I'll admit it if I am.

Baron has some liability if he is taking money from someone who is defrauding his members.


You are the one who said other guys won't post because they are afraid of being attacked but no other guys were attacked except you because you posted multiple times a day hyping tst.


You must be getting old

franz and ti


You will find no trace of it on here now

Same shit, everyone said it was legit

And then the truth came out


There are always 3 sides to every story

your side

their side

and the truth


Why is selling a dream defrauding members ?


If this is true every prop firm is a fraud


When are you going to talk Bob into opening an alternative to tst?
 
Quote from volente_00:

You are the one who said other guys won't post because they are afraid of being attacked but no other guys were attacked except you because you posted multiple times a day hyping tst.


You must be getting old

franz and ti


You will find no trace of it on here now

Same shit, everyone said it was legit

And then the truth came out


There are always 3 sides to every story

your side

their side

and the truth


Why is selling a dream defrauding members ?


If this is true every prop firm is a fraud

Dude, what are you smoking? There were about 15 members attacked. Anyone that said ANYTHING positive about TST was attacked. And no, members were not accusing TST of selling a dream, they were accused of outright fraud. Maybe you need to re-read those threads again. The conspiracy theories were plentiful.

I do remember Franz but how was that a scam? I never read any of his threads. I'm not saying it was not, I'm simply asking what did they do to scam members? If it was simply an accusation that that Franz guy couldn't trade his way out of a paper bag, then that is not scam. None of these vendors can. If he was selling a service and delivered on that service, then that is not a scam.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

Dude, what are you smoking? There were about 15 members attacked. Anyone that said ANYTHING positive about TST was attacked. And no, members were not accusing TST of selling a dream, they were accused of outright fraud. Maybe you need to re-read those threads again. The conspiracy theories were plentiful.

I do remember Franz but how was that a scam? I never read any of his threads. I'm not saying it was not, I'm simply asking what did they do to scam members? If it was simply an accusation that that Franz guy couldn't trade his way out of a paper bag, then that is not scam. None of these vendors can. If he was selling a service and delivered on that service, then that is not a scam.

Quote from marketsurfer:

That guy is still around?? :eek:

This is from tradersnarrative dot com

An interesting bit of drama played out a few days ago inside the EliteTrader messageboard. After becoming a paid sponsor, Traders International started posting about their star trading teacher Franz Shoar (Faramarz Vahdatshoar).

At TI, Franz, was supposedly trading the spoos live, and pulled in hundreds of thousands of dollars a day on average. For a fee, he was willing to teach anyone by letting them look over his shoulder. As you can imagine, that got a lot of attention. Finally, the man himself came and told everyone that he would be happy to answer any and all questions. That really got things going.

Especially since it had already been revealed that Franz uses a counter-trend strategy and simply doubles down. Some piped in that they knew all the big players in the spoos and Franz, definitely was not one of them. After all, the kind of size that he was throwing around gets a trader noticed.

People started to suspect that it was trading but trading on a simulator and that Franz was flat out lying. It didn’t take too long for the whole thread to deteriorate into juvenile ad hominems. But not before there were some very polite and coherent comments. Some astute trader mentioned that TI and Franz were probably going to get a visit by the CFTC soon.

Lo and behold! We were told not soon after that yes, Franz was on a simulator. Those dollars that he was throwing around were just digits dancing on the monitor and were not really in play.

Next thing we know, Franz “retired”, due to bad health; TI’s website was overhauled and all mentions of Franz excised and the threads on ET were also erased. Oh and this new Yahoo! Group was created by a whistle blower from within TI to organize legal action against Franz and TI.

If you’re a vendor, the moral of the story, is to watch where you tread. The same medium that allows you to market your services so freely and inexpensively can be used against you. Venture into ET to make outlandish and fraudulent claims and you might very well get your lungs ripped out.

Finally, I can’t leave this topic without mentioning the role of the financial press. TI bought an advertorial (an ad that looks like an article) on SFO and Traders World Magazine did a fawning piece on Franz. I hope that this whole sorry episode can serve as a wake up call for the them and their peers so that next time, they don’t think that due diligence is just pretty sounding legal jargon.





They were never accused of fraud, they were accused of running a company that makes more from combine fees than from live trading and so far that has not been disproved.
 
Hey, a blast from the past, someone found this 2 years ago:

Quote from PropShopCanada:

I came across Pulsar and TopStep (Patak Partners) through a private message, and find it eerie that both state the exact same reasons for requiring the "refundable deposit"... Litterally verbaitem:

Reason given by TopStep:

http://topsteptrader.com/faq.aspx

"The reason we charge this refundable fee is to avoid thousands of applications from people who do not know how to trade. As a result, a small percentage of those “unskilled applicants” would, solely by pure luck, manage to surpass the Combine and, therefore, allowed to trade with our equity partners capital.

By implementing a deposit we manage to avoid this situation, given that only committed individuals who feel they can meet the objective will enter the Combine to begin a trading career."

Reason given by Pulsar:

http://pulsarcap.com/our_approach/faq#num1

"The reason we charge this refundable fee is to avoid thousands of applications from people who do not know how to trade. As a result, not only would we be wasting resources to evaluate "unskilled" applicants but also be subjected to the possibility that, just by pure luck, a small percentage of them would manage to surpass the simulation.

By charging a 300 GBP refundable fee we manage to avoid this situation, given that only committed individuals who feel they can meet the required minimum parameters will apply for a trading career with us."

What are the odds that both were written by the same person? Slim? I think NOT!

Since then TST changed the linked page, but still funny. I think they just ripped off pulsar's model and explanation, I don't think there is a connection between them. Oh yes, pulsar is most likely a huge scam.....
 
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