TopstepTrader and Patak Trading Partners- Any and all questions answered here

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Quote from nazzdack:

1) ?.... ! .... that "trader" had to have been under massive stress on his 9th and 10th day of his evaluation period. :eek: :eek:
2) Was he really "consistent" given the fact he had a large loss (worst day) followed by a large profit (best day). :confused: :confused:
3) He was treading on the tails on his "bell curve", not he middle. Oh well, I hope he can make some real money. :) :)

All done in 10 whole days. Woo hoo!!!!!!!

Even a monkey could probably do this some day.
 
Quote from Laissez Faire:

Exactly.

Not sure if you missed it, but TST offered a FREE Combine earlier in the thread, but as far as I know, no one has taken the offer yet.

:confused:

Either people are chickening out and/or they think it's worthless and not bother wasting their time. Who knows......... Does anyone care? Lol.

If someone offered you a penny on the street (one time deal), would ya take it?
 
Quote from MichaelPatak:

ScalperJoe- 1. Why do you require the IDT course to be taken PRIOR to the Combine to get the 70% vs. 60% payout?

There is NO incentive to pay for a course if the passing rate of the combine is low. The fee was also raised from $250 to $300. And having that extra cost just adds fire to gmst's case that TST is more about fees than actually backing profitable traders. The course is optional, however a trader has no access to gaining a check until they actually get a live account and prove themselves by building the cushion. Why not allow a new trader the option to take the course AFTER they make the live account, and then have the payout switched from 60 to 70%?

mp- We do not require IDT. It is an option you can take to get the 70/30 split right away. We partnered with Ray who teaches this class. We believe in the class as it teaches intuition and anticipating opportunity and responding. We recommend recruits finish this class prior to going live as it will help your learning curve and development. We want you educated and in-tune BEFORE ever trading real capital.

As for the price going from $250 to $300 for a particular Combine. I believe you are mentioning a time when we raised this about 6 months ago. We raised this due to our increased cost. Since we started the Combine we have added many tools to help traders develop while working towards a funded account, due to this we raised the refundable deposit amount.

ScalperJoe- 2. One trading collegue asked me how his live account would be protected if the 5k cushion is held by PTP?

In other words, since PTP is willing to shoulder the burden of risk for all of the unprofitable traders, what happens to the 5k cushion if PTP fails to meet its financial obligations? If the trader doesn't give it back to the markets and actually maintains it in order to collect distributions on amounts above the cushion, does the trader have to agree via contract that those funds are subject to the risk of not only the firm, but also of other traders who lose money in their live accounts? For example, a prop trader at an equity firm has to sign such an agreement, but there are oversights in place via regulations and net capital requirements. Does PTP have to maintain any net capital requirements if they offer sub-accounts?

mp- As with both clearing firms and prop trading firms they are subject to the risk of another entity creating massive losses that could cripple them. That is why we have two levels of risk management within our firm and a risk manager of the clearing firm watching all our account at all times to ensure we avoid this situation.

ScalperJoe- 3. Since a Series 3 license does not require sponsorship, is there any benefit to taking this exam before joining TST/PTP?

mp- There is no benefit as you do not need to have a series 3 when you are brought up to trade on a funded account. Since PTP is strictly proprietary capital their traders do NOT need to be to be licensed.

ScalperJoe- 4. Maverick and I have exchanged posts regarding the profit cushion. Maverick has explained why he believes there should NOT be a cushion. PTP has explained why they require a cushion. I posted that PTP could lower the cushion to match the profit objective of the combine ($2,500 for the 10-day/30k account, $3,500 for the 10-day/50k account, etc). Since PTP claims that performance drops off when a trader goes live, why not lower the cushion to allow a trader to gain a check faster if they're profitable?

mp- We want our traders to build capital and not continually keep their account low by drawing checks. This does not help a traders mental capital as traders do go through slumps from time to time. The cushion of $5,000 or $10,000, depending on what Combine they completed prior to going live, helps the trader to stay confident during these times.

ScalperJoe- 5. Does the platform have an "auto liquidate" feature to cap a trader's loss intraday which can be set BELOW their daily risk such that a trader can minimize their draws while improving their trading discipline?

mp- Our program (the Combine) looks for traders who have this downside control. There is nothing in the trading platform that we currently have that does this. We are adding Ninja shortly and I am not familiar if their platform does this either. A trader can build their our trading app to do this but ultimately we like a trader to manage this as this teaches and instills discipline when you learn to shut yourself down manually.

I hope that helps. Let me know if I do not cover a question well enough for you.

mp


Build capital?

geezus, the trader is not getting a salary. You want the trader to build capital?

What happened to the eat what you kill I am an elite trader I don't need a stinking' salary payout?

The trader should build capital if he/she/it sux and you need protection from his/her/its suckiness.

This is pathetic.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

Let's take this to an even greater extreme. I know the answer but it will crystallize this point better. Say a trader has their equity at 90k on a 50k account so 40k in open profits. He has not taken a single check yet. Will you let the trader give back all 40k of open p&l and then another 2k to bring their equity to 48k before sending them back to the combine?

I believe the answer to this is yes.

How could you not take a single check even if you don't need the money?

Oh the trader is building capital. My bad. Lol.

If I make $100k today, I want my cut tomorrow. Why bother trading if you can't get paid?
 
Quote from cygnetnoir:

I can't believe that all this energy has been spent on this deal, and not one elitetrader has ponied up the $200 or so to run a combine and journal it here at ET.

I signed up for the combine but won't be keeping a journal here on ET.

For me it's an opportunity that I most likely wouldn't get elsewhere so I took advantage of it. I signed up for the trial first, which I would recommend to anyone who is interested, I liked what they offered and decided to give it a try.

And for what it's worth, 90% of my income already comes from trading. I'm using the combine as a way to hopefully transition to daytrading commodities and move away from swing trading stocks.
 
Quote from MichaelPatak:

Cooltraderdude- I will be more then happy to do this. Many in our program have blogs that document their experience and they post their trade reports. This allows them to be true to themselves and others around them on their ability creating a humble accountable trader.

I am open to offering a critical member of ET a free 10 day Combine where we evaluate them on a $50,000 account, with a 5 lot maximum position, and a $1,000 daily loss limit.

To receive funding they must profit $3,500 and adhere to the scouting criteria:

http://www.topsteptrader.com/scoutingcriteria

If at the end of the Combine the critical ET member has an ending balance greater than or equal to $3,500 and has adhered to the scouting criteria (found on the link I shared above), I will extend an offer to trade the same account with the same risk parameters LIVE as detailed here: http://www.topsteptrader.com/fundedtrader (max drawdown for the LIVE account is twice your daily loss limit or $2,000)

Whoever we select in this will have their trade report posted on Elite Trader each day that they trade. We will also have their trade report profile found at this location viewable to the Elite Trader community and the public: http://www.topsteptrader.com/Profiles

Everything mentioned above BESIDE MAKING THE TRADE REPORTS PUBLIC, is our standard Combine format.

Let me know if this is something that interest anyone here. Once we have someone interested and ready to start we will start a new thread and we can all together go through their Combine experience.

mp

ps. we encourage the candidate selected to use all the tools in our program to maximize their performance... trade reports, daily hour long classes, trade journal, TST squawk radio broadcast LIVE outside the S&P pit, with real-time breaking news feed, interactive chat room, Bi-montlhy group Trading Psychology session with Dr. Andrew Menaker, and great camaraderie with other like-minded traders.

Lastly- I would like to invite anyone to check out our program (which includes all the tools listed above along with Trading and Charting platform with real-time data feed) for 2-weeks completely FREE. Register for the trial here: http://www.topsteptrader.com/membership
Quote from Laissez Faire:

Exactly.

Not sure if you missed it, but TST offered a FREE Combine earlier in the thread, but as far as I know, no one has taken the offer yet.

:confused:

Hi Michael,

No problem, I will as trading permission is given for cme fx futures during the EU session. My background is fulltime intraday trading FX cash using InteractiveBrokers Ideal pro (so,not bucketshop currency trading). I do not hold positions overnight, actually I don't have any open positions at all when not sitting at my desk and most of the time my tws is closed before US data comes out.

As I am trading cash, I have to switch to futures. I am not sure how FX futures relate to cash spread wise and in volume during the EU session. As long as the difference is acceptable I don't see a problem. I am a long time IB tws user and not familiar with the T4 desktop, but that should be a minor thing.

I have been focusing on cash myself as MM / position sizing is more flexible than using fixed sized contracts. In other words, when trading futures it would be easier to apply sound position sizing with a possible larger number of contracts to be traded. So a larger combine would be better, but it's not impossible. The average risk per trade I take in my cash trades is < 0.25 %. Using futures with the "combine" specifics ($50.000; max 5 contracts; max $1.000 daily loss...), I think the average risk per trade will be more like 0.5%.

I will check tomorrow how futures and cash relate in spread and volume. Do send me a PM if you like.

PB
 
I wish to take the TST combine in near future and plan to trade the spreads for the same.

It is mentioned on TST website that should a trader wish to trade the spreads, he would get some exemptions from the rules.

I have some queries regarding this and would like them to be answered by Mr Patak or one of the scouts here.

1. Is putting a stop loss mandatory for a spread trade?

2. Only exchange traded spreads are allowed or synthetic spreads too?

3. Is daily loss limit same for spread trading techniques too? Is the trade automatically cancelled should a spread trade goes against the trader?

4.Can we hold a spread trade even after electronic close of the exchange in some spreads?

5. For currency futures, can we hold a swing trade for days?

6. Suppose an appropriate hedge ratio exceeds the daily position limit of no of lots, is it possible to put the same hedge ratio?

Ragards.
 
Quote from kkfx:

I wish to take the TST combine in near future and plan to trade the spreads for the same.


Don't know if the above is related to my prior reply, but I don't trade spreads. I just want to make sure spreads in cash and futures don't differ too much (also in relation to the available bid/ask size). A difference in spread of say an extra point will affect a p&l a lot in the long run.
 
Quote from MichaelPatak:

A trader can only start taking withdraws once they have generated the profit cushion/buffer. Their withdraw must keep the cushion/buffer in tact. If a trader says he is completely done trading with PTP then the cushion/buffer would be split between him and PTP at the 60/40 split (60% to the trader).

The reasoning here is we want traders to build their account up and maintain that balance so they do not run the risk of going back to the Combine. Having the cushion/buffer built and making sure the withdraws the traders request keeps this cushion in place keeps them confident and in a good position so that if they do start to struggle for whatever reason they can ride that struggle out and not run the risk of going back to the Combine.

mp

60/40 split with 60% going to the trader is pretty decent considering that the trader doesn't put up any money...

Just an update on the Combine challenge... I've spoken to Michael and we're good to go. We'll be doing a thread on it soon.
 
Quote from CoolTraderDude:

60/40 split with 60% going to the trader is pretty decent considering that the trader doesn't put up any money...

Just an update on the Combine challenge... I've spoken to Michael and we're good to go. We'll be doing a thread on it soon.

Hey I know I gave you shit earlier about you doing this. Disregard that. I wish you the best of luck that. I look forward to your journal.
 
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