TopstepTrader and Patak Trading Partners- Any and all questions answered here

Status
Not open for further replies.
Quote from MichaelPatak:

I hope that helps. Let me know if I do not cover a question well enough for you.

mp
More...

Thanks, the answers you provided were great.

There was a follow up question by a trader regarding the 5k profit cushion:

If the trader makes realized profits of 5k for the cushion, it was posted that PTP would NOT send the trader back to combine until the balance was negative (below the starting balance), however, the trader's share of this 5k is 3k, and the investor's share is 2k (on the 60/40 split).

So the trader can take draws for BOTH their share AND the investor's share PLUS 2x max daily loss risk in order to be sent back to the combine, is that correct?
 
Quote from ScalperJoe:

Thanks, the answers you provided were great.

There was a follow up question by a trader regarding the 5k profit cushion:

If the trader makes realized profits of 5k for the cushion, it was posted that PTP would NOT send the trader back to combine until the balance was negative (below the starting balance), however, the trader's share of this 5k is 3k, and the investor's share is 2k (on the 60/40 split).

So the trader can take draws for BOTH their share AND the investor's share PLUS 2x max daily loss risk in order to be sent back to the combine, is that correct?
More...

A trader can only start taking withdraws once they have generated the profit cushion/buffer. Their withdraw must keep the cushion/buffer in tact. If a trader says he is completely done trading with PTP then the cushion/buffer would be split between him and PTP at the 60/40 split (60% to the trader).

The reasoning here is we want traders to build their account up and maintain that balance so they do not run the risk of going back to the Combine. Having the cushion/buffer built and making sure the withdraws the traders request keeps this cushion in place keeps them confident and in a good position so that if they do start to struggle for whatever reason they can ride that struggle out and not run the risk of going back to the Combine.

mp
 
Quote from Maverick74:

Michael, any plans to add the Russell 2k futures (TF) to the product list?
More...

We are working with Eurex to get data feed. Exchanges do not like to give data feed out to sim because there is no revenue for them.

We make the pitch that if they give out more than a 2 week SIM feed or one month.. They will allow traders to develop and working what they need to work on, so that when they get back to the live market they stay live longer or permanent.

It is a win win for both parties in this case. We are working on it. The CME group understood this right away and was able to put a program together for us so that went over well. Eurex and ICE are next.

All in due time I suppose.

mp
 
Quote from MichaelPatak:

A trader can only start taking withdraws once they have generated the profit cushion/buffer. Their withdraw must keep the cushion/buffer in tact. If a trader says he is completely done trading with PTP then the cushion/buffer would be split between him and PTP at the 60/40 split (60% to the trader).

The reasoning here is we want traders to build their account up and maintain that balance so they do not run the risk of going back to the Combine. Having the cushion/buffer built and making sure the withdraws the traders request keeps this cushion in place keeps them confident and in a good position so that if they do start to struggle for whatever reason they can ride that struggle out and not run the risk of going back to the Combine.

mp
More...

Yes, that was explained in other posts. Perhaps I did not post the question correctly. What the trader wanted to know was this:

On the 50k account the total max risk is 2k (or twice the 1k daily max risk). If the balance on the account is 55k, the trader in theory can suffer a 7k drawdown (5k of profit that has been built up, PLUS the 2k max risk below the starting 50k balance).

PTP will not allow for a withdrawals until the trader has built up 5k, but if the trader quits, PTP sends 3k to the trader, and keeps their cut of 2k (60/40 split).

So in essence, if the trader continues to trade, PTP is allowing the investor to lose their own 2k PLUS another 2k in the red before sending the trader back to the combine, for a total of investor money of 4k (and the trader is losing 3k of their own profits).

In the above scenario, the max drawdown is 7k before being sent back to sim. In other words, the max risk of 1k/day and 2x max risk would not send them back to the combine, correct?
 
Quote from ScalperJoe:

Yes, that was explained in other posts. Perhaps I did not post the question correctly. What the trader wanted to know was this:

On the 50k account the total max risk is 2k (or twice the 1k daily max risk). If the balance on the account is 55k, the trader in theory can suffer a 7k drawdown (5k of profit that has been built up, PLUS the 2k max risk below the starting 50k balance).

PTP will not allow for a withdrawals until the trader has built up 5k, but if the trader quits, PTP sends 3k to the trader, and keeps their cut of 2k (60/40 split).

So in essence, if the trader continues to trade, PTP is allowing the investor to lose their own 2k PLUS another 2k in the red before sending the trader back to the combine, for a total of investor money of 4k (and the trader is losing 3k of their own profits).

In the above scenario, the max drawdown is 7k before being sent back to sim. In other words, the max risk of 1k/day and 2x max risk would not send them back to the combine, correct?
More...

Let's take this to an even greater extreme. I know the answer but it will crystallize this point better. Say a trader has their equity at 90k on a 50k account so 40k in open profits. He has not taken a single check yet. Will you let the trader give back all 40k of open p&l and then another 2k to bring their equity to 48k before sending them back to the combine?

I believe the answer to this is yes.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

I use to trade at a notorious equity prop firm in NY. I was on a floor with 200 traders. And the first day of each month, this girl would walk up and down the aisle calling out names as she was handing out checks. Michael, getting a check was better then sex. It meant something. It was more then about the money because nobody knew how much was in those checks. But everyone saw that you got one. It was a status symbol. It made guys feel like a rock star. Guys busted their ass just so that the next month when that girl came out of the office with checks in hand, that their name would be called.

I really believe you should think about this. As far as the payout, do this. Start guys at 60/40 and then after they have been live for 6 full months, bump it up to 80/20. Just keep it simple. I don't think the retained equity thing works for you or the trader. The investor wants to get paid! The trader wants to get paid! You can scale a guy up in contracts and drawdown limits based on how much p&l you collected from him. I think guys will be far more consistent if they know that at the end of the month, some money is coming their way. They will strive for consistency vs hitting some number like 30k.

I'm curious what your thoughts are on this and what objections you would have for it. I'm still up for that beer. Let me know when.
More...

Let me guess. The girl's name was Magda. Hehehe.... Notorious firm was Worldco in NYC. They did huge volume. Something like 10% or was it 20% of volume on NYSE. That's what the new trader welcome packet said. Was a fun place. Compared to Worldco, other equity prop firms we're like hole in the wall fly by night operation.

Seriously, no pay, no way. I will just walk out if I don't get paid. Some asshole just took my trading desk at Avatar and that pissed me off and I just quit and walked. An ass with no class. The best thing about Avatar was their bathroom. Fucking new and fucking nice. Hehehe... Clean and new bathroom is top priority. A deal breaker for me. I hate those firms that require a bathroom key. Oh and you have to share the damn key to boot. Who knows where that key has been and what's on it. Lol. What a joke.

Is TST a scam or what? Could somebody from Goldman shed some light on this?

If you lose your shirt at TopStepTrader, you could call yourself a TopLessTrader.....
 
Quote from Maverick74:

A buddy of mine who runs the largest option prop firm in the Chicago area gave me his numbers of what happens when guys go from getting a salary and a bonus trading firm money to trading their own capital within the firm to get a higher payout. He said there was a very steep dropoff when guys went live with their own capital vs trading firm capital. That's the thing people are really discounting here. The reality is, most traders trade scared with their own capital. I think he said they make 50% less at this option firm and many actually go back to trading firm capital. I thought that was interesting.
More...

Salary buys food, clothes, and shelter so you don't show up to work like a homeless person.

That's all.

I don't need a salary but if I don't get paid one, I gotta create a salary. Allocate money for food, clothing, shelter, etc. Pain in the ass. Another thing to think about. I am a trader. My job is to trade. I am not supposed to figure out a salary.

I think it's a distraction when you don't get a salary. Could make people scared.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

Don't listen to what Don Bright or others say about being your own boss and all that crap. Take the paycheck and work for a legit firm if only to get it on your resume. You never know when you are going to need that resume again.
More...

This is the funniest thing I have ever read in regards to prop trading.

I have been thinking this all along but never said b/c I didn't want to offend The Don. I mean he might have soft skin. Plus, everyone on ET seems to have a favorable opinion about him.
 
Quote from cygnetnoir:

I can't believe that all this energy has been spent on this deal, and not one elitetrader has ponied up the $200 or so to run a combine and journal it here at ET.
More...

Probably b/c the $200 is better spent at a streeep club. Hehe.

I will bet $200 that a random guy/gal won't pass the Combine.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top