TopstepTrader and Patak Trading Partners- Any and all questions answered here

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Quote from marketsurfer:

Here's the link. You are the " critical" TA proponent who should step up to the plate and take the offer. Are you brave/confident enough? It's just 10 to 20 days--- I'll even pay the small basic fee on your behalf--- nothing to lose.... And huge respect to gain...not to mention shutting my big mouth! LOL!
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I worked very diligently for a long time to dissolve my ego with its need to control that which cannot be controlled, its need to be right, its need to gain respect from others. Several positive things happened as a result: I learned that what others think about me is their business, not mine; I learned that great joy comes from helping others; I became a consistently profitable trader.

Would you find it worthwhile to put a superb income stream on hold just to prove to an anonymous on-line community that you can trade? It wouldn't even demonstrate that TA works because for all you know I trade based on "mojo" like Red_Ink, or maybe I use an astrology book over which I've pasted the words "Reading Price Charts Bar By Bar".

You want proof that TA works, drop me a PM, and you'll get it without any egos involved.
 
Quote from NoDoji:

I worked very diligently for a long time to dissolve my ego with its need to control that which cannot be controlled, its need to be right, its need to gain respect from others. Several positive things happened as a result: I learned that what others think about me is their business, not mine; I learned that great joy comes from helping others; I became a consistently profitable trader.

Would you find it worthwhile to put a superb income stream on hold just to prove to an anonymous on-line community that you can trade? It wouldn't even demonstrate that TA works because for all you know I trade based on "mojo" like Red_Ink, or maybe I use an astrology book over which I've pasted the words "Reading Price Charts Bar By Bar".

You want proof that TA works, drop me a PM, and you'll get it without any egos involved.
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Mostly good points. But I never got this zen trader stuff. An edge is an edge-- ego is needed to trust the edge. Now, if you don't have an edge, then yeah, zen can help you when the account slowly melts away or gains in a random fashion. OR if you are trading with scared money or capital you cant afford to lose


There is enough proof in the market, it's practioners, and academically that objective TA doesn't work. Interestingly, the top traders I know have huge egos-- basically prevents being churned by noise by providing the confidence to stick out a position. Best wishes! Surf
 
Hi Michael ,

I appreciate your honest reply

As you stated here , The stats on your profitable traders in your funded program

You have only a handful of traders that are profitable enough to make a monthly paycheck


The reality is ,

Trading futures is tough game , let alone in this market environment

Finding profitable traders is difficult no matter what markets you trade !



Quote from hitnrun:

michael patak , stated that there are 27 live funded accounts

that does not mean the traders are making much money

if a trader is just breaking even & not doing much volume , then no one is making squat in the live account

It is difficult to find profitable traders these days , especially in this market

for traders that are managing there own money
you probably have more profitable traders with stocks
then you do someone trading the futures market

The key questions are !

How many traders in the live program are net profitable each month ?

How many traders actually draw a check monthly ?
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hitnrun- You are correct in saying it is difficult to find traders that can produce. We have quite a few that are net profitable each month though profits are not out of this world. They tend to do their Combine performance cut in half when live.

Many do not pull from their account (withdraw as you say) though we do have a couple do it from time to time every month or so.

The live traders like to keep it in their account. It helps takes the pressure off. They will have weeks or months that they make $5k for example then lose half it next month and back and forth. We work with those types on their consistency.. some get it and some don't.. lots of learning curves whether live or in the Combine.

mp


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My old firm, a hedge fund, searching for edge had 100's traders through the door, all with "proven systems", vetted back tested results, and actual real money success. this was during the hayday of day trading. only ONE out of the 100's survived to be actually hired--- only ONE had a real edge and that edge was unreplicatable by anyone else. All the TA wonks, secret system users, option traders, etc FAILED. Just my experience. Surf

PS-- i think these guys have lower standards of performance-- my read is just to be above break even--- if not, god help their backers!
 
Quote from marketsurfer:

My old firm, a hedge fund, searching for edge had 100's traders through the door, all with "proven systems", vetted back tested results, and actual real money success. this was during the hayday of day trading. only ONE out of the 100's survived to be actually hired--- only ONE had a real edge and that edge was unreplicatable by anyone else. All the TA wonks, secret system users, option traders, etc FAILED. Just my experience. Surf

PS-- i think these guys have lower standards of performance-- my read is just to be above break even--- if not, god help their backers!
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agreed. everyone who makes money is doing the same thing market making, spreading, getting orderflow.
 
Quote from 2rosy:

agreed. everyone who makes money is doing the same thing market making, spreading, getting orderflow.
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Exactly-- the trader who made money for us had an ( legal) information edge. Otherwise, your correct

Remember the legal form of mutual fund timing? Dat was a real edge :cool:
 
Quote from volente_00:

How important is a track record at your firm ?
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Is by far the most important thing. But.....it has to have shown succeess recently. A good last few years. Too many guys who killed it in 1998-2002 or so can't make a dime today. You can't be a guy who crushed it in 1998-2002, then did nothing/lost until 2008, then crushed it 2008-2009, the did nothing from 2010 to now. Have to be able to adjust to environments and make money.
 
Hi Michael

thanks for the honest results on your traders live acounts



hitnrun- You are correct in saying it is difficult to find traders that can produce. We have quite a few that are net profitable each month though profits are not out of this world. They tend to do their Combine performance cut in half when live.

Many do not pull from their account (withdraw as you say) though we do have a couple do it from time to time every month or so.

The live traders like to keep it in their account. It helps takes the pressure off. They will have weeks or months that they make $5k for example then lose half it next month and back and forth. We work with those types on their consistency.. some get it and some don't.. lots of learning curves whether live or in the Combine.

mp
 
Quote from Maverick74:

... They can start compounding their account very fast. The key here is CONSISTENCY. IF they are consistent, the p&l can double every week. Don't look at this from the standpoint of account values. Blackjack is a better example. Using a simple Kelly Criterion betting system they can compound their money on top of itself.

Now of course if they start losing money from the start, you can throw all this out the window. Once again, consistency is the key. All traders need to learn this. Did you know that a single penny doubled every day for 30 days will get you more then 5 million dollars. It's called pressing your bet. LOL.
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This, to me, is the most interesting idea posted in this thread.
 
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