TopstepTrader and Patak Trading Partners- Any and all questions answered here

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Quote from traderchi128:

Surf's trading in my opinion is HORRENDOUS. He's not a bad guy. In fact he seems like a great guy to go have a beer with. Just don't talk trading with him. He's similar to VN. A very smart guy, who can't trade for shit.

At least Surf doesn't whine like VN did when he got obliterated. Surf does own up to his huge losses. VN whined it was somebody else's fault he got crushed.
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Thanks for giving me the color on Surf. Appreciate it. So, is Surf a money manager like VN or does he trade his own individual account? I am asking what he does for a living? I just got curious about Surf, since I can see a lot of passion in your words when you wrote about him. LOL.
 
Quote from Lucias:

Consider this setup

1. The time required would be longer. 1 month is just too random. It'd be at least 2-6 months in length. Minimum of 50 days and 90 trades.

2. Objectives would be reduced and objectives would be formulated in a risk adjusted measure. I suggested that 6x multiple of max peak to value DD and 6x return on daily risk limit would be a challenging but reasonable measure and manage not to have a peak to valley DD greater then 6x daily loss limit (or whatever the conditions would be live).

3. Scout opportunity could be free for traders who showed promise on live acccounts because the objective is to find best traders -- not to sell crap. If a charge was needed, scout opportunity would cost something tangible, like a $750 deposit but you'd get it back if you just showed up. Trade on 60% of days and get a full refund.

4. There would only be one tier because as someone who funds traders then there is no reason for me to risk more then required. Likewise, it is understood I will scale up traders to enough capital to trade for a living if they do well. So, it'd be probably start at about $900 risk cap per trader and scale up quickly to 3k-5k per day if they did well.

5. It would be at my discretion. There would no guarantee that everyone would be funded. However, I would show those that were funded over another and show why and the reasons would need to be logical.. better risk adjusted return, higher net profit, etc. I would also set a firm # of traders who were guaranteed funding at the start of a new scouting round.

6. When going live, you would get at least 4x your daily loss limit and possibly up to 6x limit.

7. You would never be forced back to simulator but would be scaled down in both loss limit and contracts if you did poorly.

8. Hitting the daily loss limit 1x would not be end of world. The platform would automatically shut you down/out if you were within 90% of the loss limit and had no open positions. If you have an open position, you could go 15% over the loss limit without penalty. If you shut down between 15% and 20% over the limit then you'd be be penalized - no trading for 3 days. At 20% over the limit, the software would shut you down. If the software closes you or you exceed the 20% overrage then you'd be shut down for 1 week from live trading with possible further penalties on subsequent violations including fines. Of course, I'd just work backwards so that the software close level was the true loss level. This graduated response will encourage my traders to utilize all of their risk while still being disciplined.
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Lucias, in my eyes, your combine idea is definitely a substantial improvement over the Patak's model. It makes it way more attractive to the trader and much more importantly, this model is much more balanced and fair in my eyes, both from trader and the firm point of view. Kudos for writing it down. Cheers.
 
Quote from gmst:

Thanks for giving me the color on Surf. Appreciate it. So, is Surf a money manager like VN or does he trade his own individual account? I am asking what he does for a living? I just got curious about Surf, since I can see a lot of passion in your words when you wrote about him. LOL.
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I believe Surf does some marketing/raises money for some funds. Is also a writer who has appeared on yahoo.com, where I get my quotes/charts from. But ask him. He will tell you.

Normally a guy with any strategy saying what he does wouldn't be subjected to my ball busting. But here's a guy, who has blown up consistently, taken gigantic losses....yet claims he has some great strategy that's top secret. Then he has the stones to say most other people's strategies are guessing and will get them nowhere. This coming from a guy who does not trade for a living and has had a horrible track record trading.

Busting balls with him is like shooting fish in a barrel. You can not possibly miss.
 
Quote from gmst:


Tangential question Surf - Does Victor still trade? Or, after Matador went down in 2007, has he stopped trading?
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Surf - can you ans this please? I am curious what you do for living Surf? Because I saw sometime back that you organize some kind of party for ET guys. That sounds interesting. Do you raise money Surf? How much have you raised the most? Feel free to PM. Curious and might be interesting to talk to you. Cheers.
 
Quote from traderchi128:


Busting balls with him is like shooting fish in a barrel. You can not possibly miss.
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ROFL - Thats rude but very funny :)
 
Quote from MichaelPatak:


I am open to offering a critical member of ET a free 10 day Combine where we evaluate them on a $50,000 account, with a 5 lot maximum position, and a $1,000 daily loss limit.
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I nominate Lucias for this combine. Time for him to $hit or get off the pot
 
Quote from Lucias:

ScalperJoe -- The 1k is YOUR risk because you earned it. That's your money. Im not trying the combine with their current software because the t4 DOM is junk. I already explained that risking having a bad experience in my trading due to their crappy DOM is not worth it for me. If it was on OEC, I'd probably consider their latest offer. The OEC dom is rock solid.. great job guys.

Mr. Patak stated upfront the goal wasn't to make money off the combine failures. If true, why not just refund any trader who actually trades the required number of days? You could make it a 2 month-3 month thing... pay the deposit, if you trade on at least 60% of days, win or lose, you get your money back. Something like that would make it clear the combine wasn't about generating rev from combine failures.

I already showed you all the differences between how a real scouting would be run different then this operation. So, if anyone is thinking about really scouting for traders.. Consider this setup

1. The time required would be longer. 1 month is just too random. It'd be at least 2-6 months in length. Minimum of 50 days and 90 trades.

2. Objectives would be reduced and objectives would be formulated in a risk adjusted measure. I suggested that 5x multiple of max peak to value DD and 6x return on daily risk limit would be a challenging but reasonable measure and manage not to have a peak to valley DD greater then 6x daily loss limit (or whatever the conditions would be live).

3. Scout opportunity could be free for traders who showed promise on live acccounts because the objective is to find best traders -- not to sell crap. If a charge was needed, scout opportunity would cost something tangible, like a $750 deposit but you'd get it back if you just showed up. Trade on 60% of days and get a full refund.

4. There would only be one tier because as someone who funds traders then there is no reason for me to risk more then required. Likewise, it is understood I will scale up traders to enough capital to trade for a living if they do well. So, it'd be probably start at about $900 risk cap per trader and scale up quickly to 3k-5k per day if they did well.

5. It would be at my discretion. There would no guarantee that everyone would be funded. However, I would show those that were funded over another and show why and the reasons would need to be logical.. better risk adjusted return, higher net profit, etc. I would also set a firm # of traders who were guaranteed funding at the start of a new scouting round.

6. When going live, you would get at least 4x your daily loss limit and possibly up to 6x limit.

7. You would never be forced back to simulator but would be scaled down in both loss limit and contracts if you did poorly.

8. Hitting the daily loss limit 1x would not be end of world. The platform would automatically shut you down/out if you were within 90% of the loss limit and had no open positions. If you have an open position, you could go 15% over the loss limit without penalty. If you shut down between 15% and 20% over the limit then you'd be be penalized - no trading for 3 days. At 20% over the limit, the software would shut you down. If the software closes you or you exceed the 20% overrage then you'd be shut down for 1 week from live trading with possible further penalties on subsequent violations including fines. Of course, I'd just work backwards so that the software close level was the true loss level. This graduated response will encourage my traders to utilize all of their risk while still being disciplined.
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You are seriously so insecure you are afraid to give this a try? Man you are pathetic. You have been begging for backing on here for a year but are too lazy to work for it. Keep making excuses buddy.
 
Quote from CoolTraderDude:

WOW!! He called my bluff, nice...!:D

I sent Patak a PM about it... Lucias or gmst are also good choices...!

I'm willing to do a journal in the trading or journal section with my trading win or lose... My terms are that I remain anonymous under the CTD handle... that's about it.
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Mav must be smiling. So much free publicity for Patak. Even a journal on his name. Wow! Seriously LOL!!
 
Quote from Maverick74:

OK, I just went back and checked. They funded 8 guys in the month of August. That's 2 guys a week.
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That equates to 180 paying combine memebers paying 160-400 each


min 29k gross from combine free, overhead can't be that high to run this


And as this is a slow time of year
 
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