TopstepTrader and Patak Trading Partners- Any and all questions answered here

[Lucias]

Previous arrangement I suggested was fair.. another way to look at it is that a trader has to hit an abnormal return for them to be considered eligible.

In such case, I would keep most everything the same from previous combine but we change it such that..

Combine format: Open ended. You get a single long term account.
Entry Fee: You pay a single entry fee for 3 months.
Trades: Minimum 90 trades
Time To Complete: Open ended/3-6 months.
Days Required: Trade on at least 55% of total days.
Profit Objective: Net at least 6x the max peak to valley drawdown and 6x the daily risk limit. Limit max peak to valley drawdown to less then 6x the daily risk limit.

Objectives: At discretion.. profits can't be too skewed from a few trades.

Funding: Similar to previous but given the longer term nature, one should be funded at, at least, $3,000 daily risk limit.

This would be a tough one.. but under my plan you'd get a total of 18k risk capital.

 

[ScalperJoe]

Quote from gmst:

Holy Moly!

I didn't notice that one can get daily trade reports only if he takes paid membership.

Daily trade reports are such a fundamental thing and require absolutely ZERO cost to generate. Once the script has been written, you just press a button and boom - you have the daily trade report. Patak wants money for traders to have access to daily trade report - damn that is 1 or 2 pages of transaction information - not much analysis there. LOL

As Mav already pointed out, all Combines get access to their daily reports once they start the combine.

However, upon further review:

If you require a practice account WITH trade logs, then it appears the Membership is the default option.

The "Basic" option allows you to add it for an extra $30 or $50 bucks (depending on the Combine) when you're on the sign up page, but what's the point if you can't get the trade logs.

"Basic Plus" includes the practice account in the price, but with no trade logs?

Hopefully Mav's ideas for a combine won't take such a convoluted approach.

Quote from Maverick74:

I will post my ideas for a combine in the next few days. I think I have a fair model in mind.

 

[CoolTraderDude]

Quote from traderchi128:



The other thing which is a concern is the lack of traders making any real money there. Being open for 2 yrs and not having many guys reach 30k implies to me that they don't have adequate funding for their experienced guys. That's a red flag.

So now that I have confused you, here is my take:

New guys should go there, and find out if they have what it takes. If they don't do well, no big deal...only a few hundo.

To me it says that it's a business model that makes money off of the "Combines" not trading.

 

[CoolTraderDude]

Quote from Maverick74:

I actually left some stuff off. My apologies.


CBOT pit activity
Breaking News
Daily trading classes
Market updates
Live market commentary
News affecting the markets

Real-time economic releases
Live Floor trader interviews throughout the day
Weekly sessions with professional trading psychologist, Dr. Andrew Menaker

Well it's good to see that you're not advertising for them...!

Here's a question to Patak... Is Maverick one of your owners or affiliated with you in any way...?

 

[WinstonTJ]

Quote from volente_00:How much did the top producer earn in 2010 and 2011 ?

Quote from volente_00:Why is it relevant what others can do ?


The only thing that matters at the end of the day is what you can do

Do you read your own posts? You and GMST are talking out of both sides of your mouths and the only thing you are doing is drawing attention to Patak and TsT.

I have no affiliation to any of this other than these attacks you guys are launching at these guys went from semi-serious to complete humor. They could be the most standup firm in the world or the next Madoff (as accused by GMST) but at this point it's just funny how you two won't just give up and let it be. How many times have the both of you said "this is my last post I'm outta here". It's just childish at this point.

 

[CoolTraderDude]

Quote from WinstonTJ:


I have no affiliation to any of this other than these attacks you guys are launching at these guys went from semi-serious to complete humor. They could be the most standup firm in the world or the next Madoff (as accused by GMST)...

Neither... Patak isn't doing anything illegal (so far) and the rules are clear for anyone to see. It's just impossible to make money as a trader by their rules or by their methods.

Patak should fall under the category of TRADING ENTERTAINMENT... A firm that makes it's money off of the "Combines", data services and training provided rather than the trading.

 

[optionbull]

Quote from CoolTraderDude:

Neither... Patak isn't doing anything illegal (so far) and the rules are clear for anyone to see. It's just impossible to make money as a trader by their rules or by their methods.

Patak should fall under the category of TRADING ENTERTAINMENT... A firm that makes it's money off of the "Combines", data services and training provided rather than the trading.

+1

 

[TraDaToR]

Quote from traderchi128:

I will bet $1,000,000 that there is 0% chance he went to Wharton.

I would take that bet. You are betting on the percentage of chance he went to Wharton instead of the fact that he went there or not.

Sorry for this post. I must be bored.

 

[MichaelPatak]

Quote from Maverick74:

I'm surprised this question has not been asked. Michael, how many times will you actually let a guy come back and erase his previous debt? Say a guy goes goes live and loses 4k and goes back to the combine. Then he goes live again with a new account set at zero. Then he struggles again and loses another 4k. Back to the combine and live yet again. Account re-set to zero. I imagine there has to be a limit right? I know you will probably say it's a case by case issue but what do you think is fair? Are there any soft rules on this?

Good question.

The most we have done this is 4 times. So that is n the Combine, go live, struggle for whatever reason, go back to the Combine (if balance is well below initial starting balance of course). If they successfully meet Combine objective they come back live with a reset account balance and get another shot. If they struggle for whatever reason, they then go back to the Combine (if balance is well below initial starting balance of course).... Needless to say the most this has happened is 4 times. Each time we reset it and each time PTP absorbs the losses. I believe this trader took time off and is now readjusting his trading plan and methodology.

mp

 

[MichaelPatak]

Quote from hitnrun:

Hello Michael

For a trader with a live account . If there managing there risk according to your rules & are consistently profitable

we realize that after the initial risk ptp takes with a trader , Once they start building equity in the account your risk is very limited

it seems like the rules are very strict for everyone within your structure , possibly even for those that prove themselves

most traders that are making money & managing risk would prefer to be treated as individuals based on there own performance with ptp & hopefully be afforded some flexibility to grow together as in a two way street

for a trader that is profitable & doing what is expected
do you work with your traders to ease the restrictions on them

trading is challenging enough without all the added stress , it's all about making money & controlling risk . right


Is your firm ptp flexible with traders that have proven themselves with you ?

Is the 1 year contract with ptp that is required negotiable ?

hitnrun- very good question. We treat our traders like discovered talent that we want to keep and will do anything to make the partnership as mutually beneficial as possible.

IF a trader is producing we lay way off the guy/girl. We let him be the trader he is. When you first start you play by our rules as it is our equity partners (PTP) capital. Once you have established yourself as a proven trader which is somewhere around $5k-$10K in profits that you have built, doors begin to open. You no longer have to follow the initial "rookie" trader rules. You are a proven trader and as your account grows opportunity will as well. Things like lower exchange fees we can get as we would purchase trading rights for the product you trade (if we currently don't already have those rights).

We would open you up to coaching a group of up and coming recruits (you would be compensated from TST for this).

This all happens if you are a PROVEN trader with PTP and come to us with requests on how we can better put in a more profitable situation.

Our proven traders are treated like franchise athletes and that is how we look at you.

mp

ps. we use sports analogies with trading quite a bit.