That's the easiest part of the combine. If you can't hit those, then you probably should not be trading. And btw, if for some reason you think THOSE are too difficult, under custom you can go in and modify all of them. Just go to the combine page, click on custom and then scroll down and change them to whatever you want. But seriously Lucias, if you want someone to back you, those rules are a given. Hell if I was backing a guy, those rules would be a lot tighter.
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TopstepTrader and Patak Trading Partners- Any and all questions answered here
- Thread starter MichaelPatak
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That's the easiest part of the combine. If you can't hit those, then you probably should not be trading. And btw, if for some reason you think THOSE are too difficult, under custom you can go in and modify all of them. Just go to the combine page, click on custom and then scroll down and change them to whatever you want. But seriously Lucias, if you want someone to back you, those rules are a given. Hell if I was backing a guy, those rules would be a lot tighter.
Mav,
You haven't made much sense at all lately...You claim that my risking 5% per day is ludicrious but in order to maximize the TST/PTK risk limit the trader will risk 50% per day.
You were quoted here claiming any trader would blow out risking more then 2% per trade but when it comes to TST/PTK.. you say to treat it like blackjack. At the lowest tier level, the trader only gets 1k total risk... 2% of that is $20. Good luck trading futures with $20 stop. (Note risking more then 2% won't lead to blow out... simple understanding of probability will show that unless the risk of blow out at the 2% risk level is high... i.e if my risk of blowing out at 2% risk level is say 3% then double that risk to 6%.. its still a low number.. What it means is that if risking 5%/day will lead to blow out then your risk of blow out at 2% is going to be high...).
This deal is so bad that actually.. I'm looking for funding and not interested in funding others but if I were setup and a trader were as consistent/profitable as the combine objectives for 3-4 months in a row (1 month is random) then I would be able to offer a better deal.
You haven't made much sense at all lately...You claim that my risking 5% per day is ludicrious but in order to maximize the TST/PTK risk limit the trader will risk 50% per day.
You were quoted here claiming any trader would blow out risking more then 2% per trade but when it comes to TST/PTK.. you say to treat it like blackjack. At the lowest tier level, the trader only gets 1k total risk... 2% of that is $20. Good luck trading futures with $20 stop. (Note risking more then 2% won't lead to blow out... simple understanding of probability will show that unless the risk of blow out at the 2% risk level is high... i.e if my risk of blowing out at 2% risk level is say 3% then double that risk to 6%.. its still a low number.. What it means is that if risking 5%/day will lead to blow out then your risk of blow out at 2% is going to be high...).
This deal is so bad that actually.. I'm looking for funding and not interested in funding others but if I were setup and a trader were as consistent/profitable as the combine objectives for 3-4 months in a row (1 month is random) then I would be able to offer a better deal.
Quote from Maverick74:
That's the easiest part of the combine. If you can't hit those, then you probably should not be trading. And btw, if for some reason you think THOSE are too difficult, under custom you can go in and modify all of them. Just go to the combine page, click on custom and then scroll down and change them to whatever you want. But seriously Lucias, if you want someone to back you, those rules are a given. Hell if I was backing a guy, those rules would be a lot tighter.
Quote from Lucias:
Mav,
You haven't made much sense at all lately...You claim that my risking 5% per day is ludicrious but in order to maximize the TST/PTK risk limit the trader will risk 50% per day.
You were quoted here claiming any trader would blow out risking more then 2% per trade but when it comes to TST/PTK.. you say to treat it like blackjack. At the lowest tier level, the trader only gets 1k total risk... 2% of that is $20. Good luck trading futures with $20 stop. (Note risking more then 2% won't lead to blow out... simple understanding of probability will show that unless the risk of blow out at the 2% risk level is high... i.e if my risk of blowing out at 2% risk level is say 3% then double that risk to 6%.. its still a low number.. What it means is that if risking 5%/day will lead to blow out then your risk of blow out at 2% is going to be high...).
This deal is so bad that actually.. I'm looking for funding and not interested in funding others but if I were setup and a trader were as consistent/profitable as the combine objectives for 3-4 months in a row (1 month is random) then I would be able to offer a better deal.
Lucias, when I say 2%, I'm talking about notional account value. You are confusing things here. You tell me you are risking 5% of your "entire" account per day. That is INSANE! I wouldn't back you with my worst enemy's money under those conditions. You can't make an apples to apples comparison because Patak is not giving you money, they are giving you rope. When you get to the end of it, they pull it. When you trade your own account, you are trading your own equity. These two are NOT the same thing. I have no idea why you are not getting this.
If you can't make money risking 1k to 3k a day, then you should NOT be trading! There is no debate here. I mean shit man, even under the tiny 50k account where they give you 1k a day in losses, you should be able to make 500 in p&l if you are risking 1k. That's 125k a year! And that's not very optimal. You should not be risking twice what you are making. It should be the other way. You should be making twice what you are risking.
I honestly don't think you understand the math here. You are really over complicating this.
Winston - You are a good guy and you know your IT thing well. We also had some interesting and useful conversations on ET before. That is why I am taking time to pen this message. This message is for your own introspection. If you want, feel free to reply, but you really do not need to.
You have made 3 or 4 comments on the Patak thread. You run an IT business out of NYC. What kind of customers do you wish to attract? Large successful private traders and small hedge funds or the typical Patak customer - too broke to fund his own account but stars in the eyes.
Its pretty clear that you have come out in support of Patak. Have you taken a minute to think what kind of impression are you leaving about your judgement ability in the mind of readers, especially successful traders who can be your clients one day? You will be surprised by how many PMs I have received since the time I exposed Patak and Maverick. People have been writing to me that earlier they used to think good things about Maverick, but a lot of them now feel that Maverick is just shilling on this forum. Btw, almost no serious trader in PM has talked about Patak - because every serious trader takes it for granted that Patak is an "obvious" scam, and so no point in discussing it. I mean its obvious to most of the successful guys. Of course, people who are new to the futures game, don't have any money in their account and look at Patak as a potential opportunity have hard time making a balanced judgement.
I would like you to give my post some thought - before you hit reply. What if someone goes ahead files a complaint with CFTC against Patak, and Patak is indicted and has to pay few millions in penalty? All those guys who are supporting Patak today would feel their online reputation trashed. But, it won't matter to them because noone knows who they are. However, you run a thriving business in nyc and at least a few people on ET know who you are. Thinking before posting will be good for your business.
I am sure you would agree that as soon as Patak gets indicted, someone will start a thread 'Patak indicted' or so on ET. I am willing to bet that this will happens within 12 months from today. You just need one disgruntled customer to read these threads, understand the maths behind Patak operations and understand how he was fleeced and report to regulators. Game ends!
You have made 3 or 4 comments on the Patak thread. You run an IT business out of NYC. What kind of customers do you wish to attract? Large successful private traders and small hedge funds or the typical Patak customer - too broke to fund his own account but stars in the eyes.
Its pretty clear that you have come out in support of Patak. Have you taken a minute to think what kind of impression are you leaving about your judgement ability in the mind of readers, especially successful traders who can be your clients one day? You will be surprised by how many PMs I have received since the time I exposed Patak and Maverick. People have been writing to me that earlier they used to think good things about Maverick, but a lot of them now feel that Maverick is just shilling on this forum. Btw, almost no serious trader in PM has talked about Patak - because every serious trader takes it for granted that Patak is an "obvious" scam, and so no point in discussing it. I mean its obvious to most of the successful guys. Of course, people who are new to the futures game, don't have any money in their account and look at Patak as a potential opportunity have hard time making a balanced judgement.
I would like you to give my post some thought - before you hit reply. What if someone goes ahead files a complaint with CFTC against Patak, and Patak is indicted and has to pay few millions in penalty? All those guys who are supporting Patak today would feel their online reputation trashed. But, it won't matter to them because noone knows who they are. However, you run a thriving business in nyc and at least a few people on ET know who you are. Thinking before posting will be good for your business.
I am sure you would agree that as soon as Patak gets indicted, someone will start a thread 'Patak indicted' or so on ET. I am willing to bet that this will happens within 12 months from today. You just need one disgruntled customer to read these threads, understand the maths behind Patak operations and understand how he was fleeced and report to regulators. Game ends!
Mav, I don't understand your math
2% notional of 1 ES contract is appx 62000*.02 = $1240
Most day traders use leverage and recommend about 10k-15k per contract.
At 10k per contract * .05 = $500
$500 is much less then $1240.
I have systems I risk even more but the probability of my taking that risk is very low. You have to factor in probability to understand what the real risk is. A small risk that has a high probability of being realized can eventually/surely lead to account ruin. A simple example would be to set a 1 tick stop loss... take enough trades and your account will likely be gone. Small risk but high probability of realizing it. This isn't a time for trading lessons though.
Again it goes back to math.... you can't hit the risk limit at TST/PTK. So you have to reduce that to about 85% of the risk given. This in itself makes it much more difficult but it doens't matter because you only have 1k total. That's your account 1k. How much does it make sense to risk of it? If you risk only $100 per trade.. you're risking 10% of your rope.
2% notional of 1 ES contract is appx 62000*.02 = $1240
Most day traders use leverage and recommend about 10k-15k per contract.
At 10k per contract * .05 = $500
$500 is much less then $1240.
I have systems I risk even more but the probability of my taking that risk is very low. You have to factor in probability to understand what the real risk is. A small risk that has a high probability of being realized can eventually/surely lead to account ruin. A simple example would be to set a 1 tick stop loss... take enough trades and your account will likely be gone. Small risk but high probability of realizing it. This isn't a time for trading lessons though.
Again it goes back to math.... you can't hit the risk limit at TST/PTK. So you have to reduce that to about 85% of the risk given. This in itself makes it much more difficult but it doens't matter because you only have 1k total. That's your account 1k. How much does it make sense to risk of it? If you risk only $100 per trade.. you're risking 10% of your rope.
Gmst, this is how 19 year old kids think. Nobody gives a shit about their online reputation. I actually have a reputation off line that is a little more important. You take the internet way too seriously. You take this site way too seriously. Have you read the shit I've posted down in P&R? LOL. I mean come on. Even Don Bright blushes when he goes down there and reads that crap. I've been accused of shilling for VTrader (where I traded for 8 years), Bright trading (where I currently have my license) and other vendors that I have commented on. Hell I get crap for defending Surf. I post whatever I like. It offends a lot of people. But here's the difference gmst. Unlike you, I don't hide behind an alias. I actually meet guys on ET in person and talk to many of them on the phone. I won't say anything on ET to someone I won't say in person. I call it like it is. If you disagree, that's fine. But that's not what a shill is. Google the word if you have to.
Quote from Lucias:
Mav, I don't understand your math
2% notional of 1 ES contract is appx 62000*.02 = $1240
Most day traders use leverage and recommend about 10k-15k per contract.
At 10k per contract * .05 = $500
$500 is much less then $1240.
I have systems I risk even more but the probability of my taking that risk is very low. You have to factor in probability to understand what the real risk is. A small risk that has a high probability of being realized can eventually/surely lead to account ruin. A simple example would be to set a 1 tick stop loss... take enough trades and your account will likely be gone. Small risk but high probability of realizing it. This isn't a time for trading lessons though.
Again it goes back to math.... you can't hit the risk limit at TST/PTK. So you have to reduce that to about 85% of the risk given. This in itself makes it much more difficult but it doens't matter because you only have 1k total. That's your account 1k. How much does it make sense to risk of it? If you risk only $100 per trade.. you're risking 10% of your rope.
NOOOO! Not 2% of the contract value, 2% of your account value. LOL. Lucias come on man. Work with me here. I know you are smarter then this. I am certain of it. Stop disappointing me.
Quote from Lucias:
Mav previous wrote..
>Lucias, when I say 2%, I'm talking about notional account value. You >are confusing things here. You tell me you are risking 5% of >your "entire" account per day.
Anyway, I'm done here. I think you are just playing games.
Thank God! Good luck finding your backer.
Quote from Lucias:
Mav, I don't understand your math
2% notional of 1 ES contract is appx 62000*.02 = $1240
Most day traders use leverage and recommend about 10k-15k per contract.
At 10k per contract * .05 = $500
$500 is much less then $1240.
I have systems I risk even more but the probability of my taking that risk is very low. You have to factor in probability to understand what the real risk is. A small risk that has a high probability of being realized can eventually/surely lead to account ruin. A simple example would be to set a 1 tick stop loss... take enough trades and your account will likely be gone. Small risk but high probability of realizing it. This isn't a time for trading lessons though.
Again it goes back to math.... you can't hit the risk limit at TST/PTK. So you have to reduce that to about 85% of the risk given. This in itself makes it much more difficult but it doens't matter because you only have 1k total. That's your account 1k. How much does it make sense to risk of it? If you risk only $100 per trade.. you're risking 10% of your rope.
I use a rule of thumb of risking 0.5% - 1.0% of my Total Account Value per trade.
I know about the 10K in capital per contract, some recommend 25K for the more volatile contracts, and I have read of Futures Swing Traders using 100K per contract.
For me if 1% of total account value allows me to trade 2 contracts given a certain stop, then that is what I would do.
I have used 2% for the less volatile stuff (slow moving stocks), but that is really an exception.
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