Top prop firm to top MBA?

[gmst]

Quote from doublet83:

To each his own I guess. How hard do you think it is to access Google's exposures to various currencies and then just execute and adjust those hedges. You probably wouldn't even be doing this because the systems are already in place. You are just monitoring and adjusting existing systems, none of which sound very creative to me.

This is going to be my last post on this thread.

doublet you are absolutely correct. Let us say Google/IBM uses a lot of exotics along with forwards to hedge its currency risks. Even then, most of the day-to-day work would be just looking at the exposure and hedging it. Say, google has a 3 month digital option on usdjpy at 90, if 90 gets hit then google will get a payoff. The treasurer listens to the pitch goldman sales guy makes, run some numbers and likes this position. He buys the digital and then he just monitors.

Compare him with the sell-side guy who is actually short digital and is managing the risk. As usdjpy approaches 90, the gamma on the position starts to move around. The life of the short digital guy (the bank trader) gets much more challenging and interesting, compared to the life of google's treasurer.

Anyways, I am out. Its clear that OP wants to make a career switch. I wish him the best.

 

[newwurldmn]

it comes down to a personal preference issue. Some people love the sellside work. Some love the buyside work.

Personally, I hated my stint on the sellside. It was a dirty business (selling products to customers who didn't really need them).

I would agree that being a research analyst at Greenlight could be more fun than being a research analyst at Fidelity. It would also be more stressful.

Google's trading department is incredibily sophisticated. They say that it's the only office in the MountainView campus that requires key cards: so they must be doing some pretty interesting stuff.

I think there are a lot of interesting careers in finance that most people overlook.

 

[torque]

Quote from newwurldmn:

it comes down to a personal preference issue. Some people love the sellside work. Some love the buyside work.

Personally, I hated my stint on the sellside. It was a dirty business (selling products to customers who didn't really need them).

I would agree that being a research analyst at Greenlight could be more fun than being a research analyst at Fidelity. It would also be more stressful.

Google's trading department is incredibily sophisticated. They say that it's the only office in the MountainView campus that requires key cards: so they must be doing some pretty interesting stuff.

I think there are a lot of interesting careers in finance that most people overlook.

Greenlight is not a typical long-short hedge fund. I think David Einhorn is one of the smartest hedge fund managers out there; his meticulous research and analytical thinking are simply astounding. Yes, that would be a great place to work at if you love fundamental equity research, but obviously it's super stressful. Mutual funds are not as "sexy" but they are coveted post-MBA jobs because they're cushy, pay is good, and the hours are very reasonable.

When I read the google trading job description, I got the impression that it was a pretty sophisticated operation and that it involved more than risk monitoring and hedging.

Even within trading there are jobs that are way more interesting than what chicago prop shops are doing. But the bulk of those jobs are in nyc/greenwich/london/hong kong.

 

[trade2live]

Quote from torque:

I'm currently at a top chicago prop shop (drw, jump, sig, wolverine, optiver, sig). Is it possible to go from that to a top MBA program? (wharton/booth/mit/columbia). I know MBA admissions officers don't like traders for multiple reasons, and i know of very few traders who managed to make such a move. I'm hoping to use the MBA to pivot away from trading and towards investment management.

Is this the best way to get into investment management ?
I am really not the career minded type who knows everything on the subject but I would venture to say you would be better off getting a job
at a fund and then become a CFA. MBA a lot of people will tell you it's not as sought after for those positions. Besides you will spend your time learning useless stuff (for your career).
And then you have to put up with all that B.S. on showing leadership and being well rounded, such crap when you think Bschools churn out a significant number of corporate scumbags who go on to be professional liars, rip off the world and ruin the economy.

 

[dealmaker]

While it is true that MBA is no longer as pretigious as it once was, you can't aspire for a top job in the banking/ investment management world without it. I am sure there are some exceptions no doubt.

Quote from trade2live:

Is this the best way to get into investment management ?
I am really not the career minded type who knows everything on the subject but I would venture to say you would be better off getting a job
at a fund and then become a CFA. MBA a lot of people will tell you it's not as sought after for those positions. Besides you will spend your time learning useless stuff (for your career).
And then you have to put up with all that B.S. on showing leadership and being well rounded, such crap when you think Bschools churn out a significant number of corporate scumbags who go on to be professional liars, rip off the world and ruin the economy.

 

[Mike805]

When taking an objective look at the current trading landscape, you're right. Vol is down and margins are thin.

But, here's the kicker - you're actually in an optimal position career-wise.

Think about this: when vol picks up several years down the line (it will happen, markets always repeat themselves), you'll be in an optimal position to seriously take advantage of it. If you're smart enough and know what to do when it counts, the next wave of vol will be very good to you. What if this wave happens in 2 years when you're looking for a job as an MBA? You'd be missing out on the opportunity because you decided you were temporarily unhappy at your current role? Or, the wave comes in 5 years and you're in some salaried position making 500k... great, but you may have made 5 times that using the right trading approach?

Do you see why the trading job is coveted now? Its not because of the job satisfaction or the morality, its because of the risk to reward profile. The upside is tremendous, but you have to stick around in order to have a chance to make that r/r profile work out .

I've been around the block a few times and I can tell you an MBA is only worth what you make it, even from a top tier school, especially now. Why? Mainly because of the opportunity cost (especially for someone in your position), but, most importantly, you have to be (or have the potential to be) a real leader. An MBA is a significant advantage to people with good leadership potential & skill. For everyone else its a waste of time. If you have zero leadership ability, throw you money away doing something else.

Bottom line: ask yourself and your peers if you are real leader. Are you?

 

[torque]

Quote from Mike805:

When taking an objective look at the current trading landscape, you're right. Vol is down and margins are thin.

But, here's the kicker - you're actually in an optimal position career-wise.

Think about this: when vol picks up several years down the line (it will happen, markets always repeat themselves), you'll be in an optimal position to seriously take advantage of it. If you're smart enough and know what to do when it counts, the next wave of vol will be very good to you. What if this wave happens in 2 years when you're looking for a job as an MBA? You'd be missing out on the opportunity because you decided you were temporarily unhappy at your current role? Or, the wave comes in 5 years and you're in some salaried position making 500k... great, but you may have made 5 times that using the right trading approach?

Do you see why the trading job is coveted now? Its not because of the job satisfaction or the morality, its because of the risk to reward profile. The upside is tremendous, but you have to stick around in order to have a chance to make that r/r profile work out .

I've been around the block a few times and I can tell you an MBA is only worth what you make it, even from a top tier school, especially now. Why? Mainly because of the opportunity cost (especially for someone in your position), but, most importantly, you have to be (or have the potential to be) a real leader. An MBA is a significant advantage to people with good leadership potential & skill. For everyone else its a waste of time. If you have zero leadership ability, throw you money away doing something else.

Bottom line: ask yourself and your peers if you are real leader. Are you?

Possible that the markets will improve, but I personally doubt it. I think what we're witnessing goes way beyond cyclical changes. We shall see though.

Also it's not just the money. Even if I were making $500K/year in my current job I would still leave for a top business school precisely because I want to do something else, meet really interesting people, and acquire a strong network.

 

[trade4succes]

Quote from torque:


Also it's not just the money. Even if I were making $500K/year in my current job I would still leave for a top business school precisely because I want to do something else, meet really interesting people, and acquire a strong network.

Do not be fooled by the clever marketing. If you have been a trader, most other jobs feel dull. Really interesting people: Maybe study art, philosophy or physics instead, not business (just my opinion). Business schools seem to attract people from the same mold, even though they pretend not to.

 

[EvOTraderV2]

Quote from trade4succes:

Do not be fooled by the clever marketing. If you have been a trader, most other jobs feel dull. Really interesting people: Maybe study art, philosophy or physics instead, not business (just my opinion). Business schools seem to attract people from the same mold, even though they pretend not to.

I agree to a large extent. Going back to school for the social experience is just Brandwashing. It's the same thought process behind buying a Mercedes for social reasons. Just make sure you know the costs involved and what will be required to pay those costs off. It costed me well over 100k for my MBA and I've never really put the thing to use other than helping friends and relatives manage their businesses and risk.

Overall, an MBA is awesome if you have an entrepreneurial spirit and want to run your own business. The courses are mostly stuff taught in undergrad b-schools but if you take a well-rounded curriculum and focus electives on learning more and more about topics that will help you navigate owning a business.

 

[torque]

Quote from trade4succes:

Do not be fooled by the clever marketing. If you have been a trader, most other jobs feel dull. Really interesting people: Maybe study art, philosophy or physics instead, not business (just my opinion). Business schools seem to attract people from the same mold, even though they pretend not to.

Um, how is it "clever marketing" when I have friends at these schools, have gone to their parties, met their classmates, sat in on classes, and know what type of jobs they get?