to the atheists on the board

I agree. It is the PRACTICE of man which defines him.

And the vast majority of atheists are people who
simply LACK A BELIEF in god/gods.
As I have stated before, it is VERY RARE that I come across
a strong atheist (the definition the silly theists like to use).
In fact...I do not personally know ANY strong atheists, and
I have a lot of atheist friends, and have been part of
atheist organizations.

So thank you for making it very clear that the theists who
continue to attempt to define atheism as something which
it is not, ARE WRONG :D

They are clearly wrong, and need to accept the real definition.
We only need to check with reality to see that labeling atheists
as people who assert god does not exist, is patently false.


peace

axeman


Quote from ARogueTrader:

It is when a homogeneous group thinks themselves "special" as to need their own lexicon, their own definitions, their own language that you can be rather certain that they are not implementing common sense.

Just because someone was a neo-conservative, and labeled themselves a "compassionate" conservative doesn't make them in any way truly compassionate, it is just their way of spinning fiction out of fact.

It is the practice that defines a man, not his own definitions.

Where is the objectivity of these atheists who tell us that only "they" truly understand their positions and that common understanding is incorrect?
More...
 
Oh axeman, I do not give a shit what christians or atheists say about the definition of atheism. Why do you have to argue some anti-christian bullshit. Why can you not accept the fact that sometimes someone can be concerned about something other than their religious position.

Why do you need to make this a christian argument. In fact I do not care what christians say--- some of them try to argue that Catholics are not Christian (some).

For centuries atheism was the "disbelief". Now you may want to change that but it has not been changed. (in my opinion and the opinion of most dictionaries.)


Your contention is that we should accept the atheists definition because atheists should be the authority on the definition of the term atheist. If is your position fine. JUST KNOW THAT YOUR POSITION REGARDING authorities IS NOT ACCEPTED BY ACADEMIA OR THE COURTS.

Now if you want to cite authority for "Atheism is the lack of belief in God or Gods" fine. I will learn.

If you want to argue lack of belief equals disbelief you have a hard road to hoe.

If you want to say that I must accept an atheists' definition of atheism because atheists say so, I will laugh to myself but not respond.

peace.


P.S.

I do enjoy doing this because it stops me from churning.




 
Now you may want to change that but it has not been changed. (in my opinion and the opinion of most dictionaries.)


First of all, not ALL dictionaries define it incorrectly, so you
immediately have a problem.

Since the dictionaries cannot agree, where do you go to next?
Answer: The experts in the field.

Who are the proper experts?
Answer: Atheist philosophers, atheist organizations, and atheists.

Which dictionary definition do THEY support?

A LACK OF BELIEF IN GOD/GODS.

Ding ding ding... we have a winner.


The question boils down to: Who has the right to properly
define a group of people?

In this case... does a theist author of a dictionary, have the
proper authority to define a large group of atheists in a way
which does NOT properly reflect reality.

I hope the answer is obvious.



peace

axeman






Quote from jem:

Oh axeman, I do not give a shit what christians or atheists say about the definition of atheism. Why do you have to argue some anti-christian bullshit. Why can you not accept the fact that sometimes someone can be concerned about something other than their religious position.

Why do you need to make this a christian argument. In fact I do not care what christians say--- some of them try to argue that Catholics are not Christian (some).

For centuries atheism was the "disbelief". Now you may want to change that but it has not been changed. (in my opinion and the opinion of most dictionaries.)


Your contention is that we should accept the atheists definition because atheists should be the authority on the definition of the term atheist. If is your position fine. JUST KNOW THAT YOUR POSITION REGARDING authorities IS NOT ACCEPTED BY ACADEMIA OR THE COURTS.

Now if you want to cite authority for "Atheism is the lack of belief in God or Gods" fine. I will learn.

If you want to argue lack of belief equals disbelief you have a hard road to hoe.

If you want to say that I must accept an atheists' definition of atheism because atheists say so, I will laugh to myself but not respond.

peace.


P.S.

I do enjoy doing this because it stops me from churning.
More...
 
Care to prove that assertion?

If I went to court and was debating a medical case,
and the opposing attorney put a medical expert on the stand
to define precisely the definition of a medical term, do you
REALLY think I could pull out websters and claim:

"INCORRECT! Websters says right here that the ACTUAL
definition of this medical term is Y. Therefore this medical
expert is WRONG."

I would get my ass laughed right out of court.

Sorry...but that line of reasoning doesnt hold water.



One side point: Academia...aka college philosophy professors
DO support the atheists definition of atheism.

They already KNOW that strong atheism is only the very tiny
minority of atheists, and that atheism generally means
a lack of belief.

peace

axeman



Quote from jem:

JUST KNOW THAT YOUR POSITION REGARDING authorities IS NOT ACCEPTED BY ACADEMIA OR THE COURTS.
QUOTE]
More...
 
I can not answer until you appeal to an authority. If you want to get into when an expert testimony would be allowed and under what circumstances you will have to do the research, I will not do it for you. But let me say, I believe before an expert would be brought into court to define atheism a judge he would have the lawyers or his clerk brief it. Experts would not be used if the term is easily understood and defined. The lawyers would cite experts on the definitons of words like dictionaries and lexiconographers. The desired definition offered by an athiest group would have little to no evidentiary value.
 
Now just a sec....

You ASSERTED:
"JUST KNOW THAT YOUR POSITION REGARDING authorities IS NOT ACCEPTED BY ACADEMIA OR THE COURTS.
"

And you want ME to do the research?

You are required to do the research, or you can choose
to RETRACT your unsupported assertion.

I gave a hypothetical example which clearly shows it is NOT
reasonable to rely on the dictionary as and END ALL
for all definitions, as if this wasnt obvious already.


I would wager that in a court case where we battled over the
definition of atheism, where you stood on your side with only
a dictionary, and I stood on my side with college philosophy
professors, authors of highly regarded atheist philosophy,
a large group of atheists, and the president of american atheists,
that a court would RULE that our definition was the correct one :D



peace

axeman



Quote from jem:

I can not answer until you appeal to an authority. If you want to get into when an expert testimony would be allowed and under what circumstances you will have to do the research, I will not do it for you.
More...
 
Your laymans concept of when experts are allowed and what purpose they serve is completely lacking in foundation, I have no desire to educate you.
 
Quote from jem:

The desired definition offered by an athiest group would have little to no evidentiary value.


How in the world can you make such a claim, especially when
the dictionary ALSO includes this definition?

When the dictionaries do NOT AGREE on the precise definition,
I would wager the courts would immediately go to the
experst, who I have already listed.

peace

axeman
More...
 
In a case where the VERY ISSUE is the definition of a
word, are you telling me that the court would soley
rely on dictionaries, WHICH DISAGREE WITH ONE ANOTHER,
and reject all expert testimony??

Anyway...you have conceded. I accept.

peace

axeman


Quote from jem:

Your laymans concept of when experts are allowed and what purpose they serve is completely lacking in foundation, I have no desire to educate you.
More...
 
The word for not knowing what to believe is "agnostic."

Ask any layperson on the street and "atheist" will mean a disbelief of god.

End of story.
 
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