to the atheists on the board

" What am I missing here?"

To put it bluntly: EVERYTHING :D

This is not even remotely analogous to any evolutionary theory.
The mechanisms are completely missing.

This is the classic theist strawman against evolution.

Evolution does NOT predict that these parts would start
self organizing at all.

peace

axeman




Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

Hey, wait a minute! I was just listening to celtic music and smoking incense - that's what all us mystics do instead of smoke and drink - and it hit me!

You guys believe in almost infinitely more self-organization than I do! I mean I'm impressed that the universe has organized into clouds, molecules, galaxies, planets, etc. but you guys take the statistical cake.

Let me post a hypothetical story:

"Once upon a time an Evil Scientist took some old automotive, watch, computer, VCR and camera parts and laid them out on a table. He decided that this would be his greatest invention - he would build a robot and then train it to destroy mankind.

But to his amazement, the parts started selforganiaizing! It was almost as if there was a magnetic force drawing the pieces together and organizing them into a Borg-like structure.

He beamed with joy as decades of tedious research and labor were being vaporized before his very eyes. Unfortunately, the little robot grew in size, strenth and intelligence and quickly subdued the Evil Scientist with a paralysis-inducing mixture of Ajax and Thai Peppers and quickly turned him into the first cyborg of his newly formed Evil Empire..."

Hey, I think I'll write a script. But here's the thing. This story seems far-fetched - a bunch of parts that "magically" self-assemble.

Yet, that is essentially what you guys believe? What am I missing here?
 
Quote from axeman:

Notice that it is yet ANOTHER ASSERTION to state that the
first cause ***IS*** intelligent.

What is the evidence for this? We have none.

I think it is counterintuitive that a highly, highly self-organizing universe would spring into being from a Mother Nature that was as dumb as a chunk of granite...
 
Quote from axeman:

" What am I missing here?"

To put it bluntly: EVERYTHING :D

This is not even remotely analogous to any evolutionary theory.
The mechanisms are completely missing.

This is the classic theist strawman against evolution.

Evolution does NOT predict that these parts would start
self organizing at all.

Okay, so I exagerrated a little bit to make a point. Can you blame me for that? :)
 
Many things are counter intuitive.
Like trading, and physics :D

Why would it be surprising that this is ALSO counter intuitive?

peace

axeman


Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

I think it is counterintuitive that a highly, highly self-organizing universe would spring into being from a Mother Nature that was as dumb as a chunk of granite...
 
A little?

You score more points being intellectually honest.

peace

axeman



Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

Okay, so I exagerrated a little bit to make a point. Can you blame me for that? :)
 
It's all the celtic music and incense.

I'm willing to go away if you promise to beat the next atheistic over-assertion into silent agnostic submission...
 
You would go away rather than acknowledge you should perhaps alter your viewpoint due to the overwhelming evidence presented to you? That sounds like a very closed mindset you have there.

You will have great difficulty in establishing just one atheistic aseertion has been made, not to mention any atheistic over assertion. There is nothing agnostic in the propositionm that your nonsense is bullshit.

Are you perhaps trying to experience that Celtic incense shit through your ass?

1. you're not supposed to smoke it that way.
2. your buttocks are starting to say silly things.
 
Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

You underestimate my powers, grasshopper. For you see, I have Stephen Hawking doing the work for me. As I've pointed out before (yes, like a broken record), Hawking found that if you run the equations of relativity back to t=0, then time and space was created at t=0! Shazaam, the need for a created Creator goes away. Time becomes merely an "invention" of the First Cause.

Can I prove this? No. Can we run the equations of relativity back to t=0? Probably not. But that's okay, I'll use anything to win an argument.

No - just kidding! My point is this: science cannot by any stretch of the imagination say that the First Cause must be created.

Think about it: it's a little hypocritical for you to argue that the First Cause must be created since the typical materialist believes in a self-existing "multiverse". The lifelong (almost orgasmic) fantasy of the atheist is to find that Mother Nature is an infinitely old broad...


this view of time is in keeping with eastern thought. very well said, shoeshine.

best,

surfer
 
Quote from axeman:

And how does this apply to anything you are asserting???


Even if we assume this is TRUE.... where is the REQUIREMENT
for GOD to be the first cause?

Where is the evidence that god IS the first cause?

The simpler solution is.... at T0 the universe popped into
existence WITHOUT gods.

peace

axeman


semantic nonsense. the first cause is known as GOD.

surfer :)
 
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