to the atheists on the board

Quote from kungfoofighting:

Reread the post that you quoted, I made no mention of an afterlife. You are correct in pointing out that if there is nothing after death, there is no way one would "realize" it. What I was trying to convey is that I do not believe shoeshineboy's intentions are to deceive people into believing something he knows to be untrue. Even Osama's followers are not trying to mislead people into accepting their beliefs, they are confident that what they believe is true.

If there were some piece of evidence that could clearly demonstrate the mechanism evolution, but you knew the evidence to be a fabricated hoax, would you present it? I doubt it. What would be the point?

Again you refer to the mars question as a trick. I will state again, I was only interested in hearing opinions regarding conclusions that would be made based on the hypothetical evidence. Why would people have no trouble accepting that an unknown, unseen, being(perhaps with properties we could not understand) must have built the house--Simply because houses do not build themselves?
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1)
You spoke of afterlife, just as someone sneezes without uttering "Atchoo!"

2)
re: Osama, Islamic destruction, 9/11. Insidious insinuation.

3) You are insinuating evolution is a hoax with an absurd hypothetical. Tricks are getting plainly cheap here.

4) Why would people have no trouble......Why do you think? If one can show houses can self build, so be it. And how many hits of microdot did you take?
 
Quote from axeman:

Your still making empty assertions based on huge assumptions.

Its amazing that you are "open minded" enough to eagerly
believe in an all powerful, all knowing, being that created
everything, but so strongly reject the possibility that an
advanced life form could survive a 500 degree environment.

Wouldn't god qualify as an advanced life form that can survive
a 500 degree environment? :D

Your being extremely inconsistent here.
If you accept that a being such as god can exist, then
accepting the possibility that a 500 degree climate being
can exist should be FAR EASIER to swallow.

The idea of god is much more absurd than a being that would
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Actually, Axe, I agree with you on one front. If you throw out the supernatural, then of course I can see your viewpoint. Your world view does not allow for antyhing ouside these four dimensions, so, yes, if we make that assumption then I can see why you say what you do.

I guess we're at a stalemate. You think I believe in fables. I think you believe in science fiction...
 
Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

Shoecentric? Now I've been called a lot of things by you guys, but that's a new one!

I think you're still missing my point overall. You're not going to get advanced life in a 500 degree environment.

Yes, I can't argue that some primitive life can survive in very harsh conditions. Hoyle documented this as well.

Also, since we're going into the apologetics of it all, how in the world would carbon string itself together in a 700 degree blast furnace? So far they haven't been able to get it to string to well in ideal lab conditions?
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As technologically advanced as we are, I am curious why the difficulty of making organic chains "create themselves", doesn't make people question: "Is it really possible that this is how it all came to be"? All the brilliant minds in the world can't begin to grasp how those "primitive" membranes organized and came to possess life, but this supposedly occurred without the aid of any "scientist".

Evolutionists have anthropomorphized evolution itself. The say that the drive to survive is so strong that intelligence would ultimately appear. Does non-intelligent life will itself some brains? Does evolution know that having arms and legs makes it easier to get around than twirling flagellae? If it is just the nature of survival, why do evolutionists believe that multicellular organisms came from more simple ones. With the theory of evolution just being change, I would think that uni-cellular organisms could evolve from animals too. An elephant which has a long gestation period may not be very well equipped to survive and might not be considered to have as strong a will to live as a mold. Did mold evolve from mammals?
 
"Your world view does not allow for antyhing ouside these four dimensions,"

False. Actually... I am open to the supernatural.
However... the supernatural has never been proven to exist.

So until you prove the supernatural is a valid domain to even
consider, I can only consider it mythology.


But even if we accepted YOUR world view, you are STILL
being very inconsistent.

I can easily claim that its easier to swallow the existence
of a 500 degree climate supernatural being, over an all powerful
ANY climate god :D


But lets get back to earth here.... supernatural claims
have never been proven. What I believe is not science fiction,
since there is nothing fictitious about it. Name ONE belief
I hold which I cannot back up with a lot of hard evidence.


peace

axeman



Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

Actually, Axe, I agree with you on one front. If you throw out the supernatural, then of course I can see your viewpoint. Your world view does not allow for antyhing ouside these four dimensions, so, yes, if we make that assumption then I can see why you say what you do.

I guess we're at a stalemate. You think I believe in fables. I think you believe in science fiction...
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The say that the drive to survive is so strong that intelligence would ultimately appear.

Care to cite some evolutionists for us?

I say a lot of things which clearly show your complete
ignorance of evolution.


peace

axeman



Quote from kungfoofighting:

As technologically advanced as we are, I am curious why the difficulty of making organic chains "create themselves", doesn't make people question: "Is it really possible that this is how it all came to be"? All the brilliant minds in the world can't begin to grasp how those "primitive" membranes organized and came to possess life, but this supposedly occurred without the aid of any "scientist".

Evolutionists have anthropomorphized evolution itself. The say that the drive to survive is so strong that intelligence would ultimately appear. Does non-intelligent life will itself some brains? Does evolution know that having arms and legs makes it easier to get around than twirling flagellae? If it is just the nature of survival, why do evolutionists believe that multicellular organisms came from more simple ones. With the theory of evolution just being change, I would think that uni-cellular organisms could evolve from animals too. An elephant which has a long gestation period may not be very well equipped to survive and might not be considered to have as strong a will to live as a mold. Did mold evolve from mammals?
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Quote from axeman:


But lets get back to earth here.... supernatural claims
have never been proven. What I believe is not science fiction,
since there is nothing fictitious about it. Name ONE belief
I hold which I cannot back up with a lot of hard evidence.
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I've never had issues with your logic.

The only thing I disagree with is, of course, your definition of "hard evidence".

I feel that you strike too much from the "courtroom" as inadmissible.

But I love science and I appreciate your devotion to the scientific method. I just feel that a trial (as opposed to laboratory) evaluation is more appropriate for evaluating the spiritual/supernatural.
 
Notice that OJ got off in a trial :D


peace

axeman



Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

I've never had issues with your logic.

The only thing I disagree with is, of course, your definition of "hard evidence".

I feel that you strike too much from the "courtroom" as inadmissible.

But I love science and I appreciate your devotion to the scientific method. I just feel that a trial (as opposed to laboratory) evaluation is more appropriate.
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Quote from axeman:

The say that the drive to survive is so strong that intelligence would ultimately appear.

Care to cite some evolutionists for us?
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There are a number of biologists, Monod comes to mind, that were willing to admit the seeming teleological "nature" that seemed to be in cellular life, especially embryos. But they were definitely evolutionists.
 
>I think you're still missing my point overall. You're
>not going to get advanced life in a 500 degree
>environment.

I guess I have no clue as to why you would make that statement(Ok, yes I do)

If we lived here in a 500 degree environment you would be saying "that is what I would expect from a creator" and would quickly follow that with "You're not going to get advanced life in a 75 degree environment".

Can't you see that if you are right and we are here as the result of an all powerful creator that you are now arguing against his ability to create life in any environment he darn well pleases?

JB
 
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