To scale out or not to scale out,

[Fu510n]

What do your stats tell you?

In addition to generating typical MFE/MAE numbers per trade, I also generate "MOT" (Money {left} On {the} Table) statistics based on the next nearest reversal/pivot point AFTER I closed the position. I'm a scalper by choice, though I still want to know how much I'm leaving behind so I can set my targets appropriately (generally 5-8 ticks for NQ or YM).

There are definitely some moves where I leave quite a bit "on the table"; then again, 85%-90% of the time I don't really care as long as it hits my target .

 

[maxinger]

Interestingly

the majority will say NOT TO SCALE OUT.
Not only that, they will ADD ON MORE AND MORE.

 

[deaddog]

What do your stats tell you?

I also generate "MOT" (Money {left} On {the} Table) statistics based on the next nearest reversal/pivot point AFTER I closed the position. I'm a scalper by choice, though I still want to know how much I'm leaving behind so I can set my targets appropriately (generally 5-8 ticks for NQ or YM).

An interesting stat but isn't that like looking at everything that went up today and kicking yourself because you didn't buy it?

The most important stat I keep track of is FFP.. {Did I} Follow {the} F**king Plan.

 

[Fu510n]

An interesting stat but isn't that like looking at everything that went up today and kicking yourself because you didn't buy it?

The most important stat I keep track of is FFP.. {Did I} Follow {the} F**king Plan.

Heh - that too for sure - but no, I never kick myself. It's more so I know 1) how many opportunities typically present themselves (per security, per day) and 2) the size of the major and minor (reversal) moves in ticks for setting appropriate targets.

NQ flip/flops ~300 times a day of late (though I've seen thousands on a lot of days last year) and YM about half that. Trading 3 contracts on each generates around $100/trade - 10x that (i.e. 80 ticks-worth in total, out of the 500-1000 "opportunities") per day is plenty enough to live on (for me anyway).

Maybe some day I'll be good enough to get a green shirt (ala SMB) - one day at a time...

 

[Chartmojo]

Big active traders are scaling in and out at every entry, exit..target...in front of sup/res ..vwaps/pocs/midpoints/confluences/wave ends/at certain time zones etc all the time. The object is to place some trades in front to get assure getting filled, some on and some behind to get a better price. As price settles into a "cushion" of buy or sell tier it slows and as it turns traders out of the money start moving to price manually on a dom to exit (or enter if joining counter trend trade). As the turn speeds (usually w sequences and correlations) faster than traders can chase it manually on a dom they hit market orders to price usually marked by a larger candle. Ideally you want to be in front of that. Big active traders and algo's do that to both get filled and to get a better price. Their are tiers of orders at key areas and traders scale in on out in of them. It depends on how nimble and or quick your trading style is as to weather you can capitalize on it. There are algos and folks with like pro gamer mouse order control in the mix.

 

[systematictrader]

That's the wrong question

You have to look at your position as if you just opened it. Then ask yourself the question: "Can I win more here?" If so, you stay or add. If not, you just close.
When you're not sure, you've got no trading plan.

Edge is not something you have when you enter a trade. It's subject to review in real time.

this is a solid answer

 

[padutrader]

It is also about scaling out, not scaling in as youve described, nevertheless you did provide good feed back. Thank you

what he means is that, if you are not going to increase your position, at that time... get out.....if you think yes i would increase my position, whether it is actually done or not, then do not get out.........
so i do not think he is advocating scaling out, closing part of position, but just get out fully..when you feel you cannot scale in more

 

[padutrader]

if you have to ask this: you do not have a clue about how the market moves or what it is doing.

let me add quickly that i too did not have any idea....for 30 years......that is why i made some and lost more because in trading if you are not confident, the market or you yourself, will change your mind and your position.

you cannot be confident if you have no idea how the market moves ...

not many people know..... and that is why they say operate with a stop...which if you do not know.... makes a lot of sense.

if you do know........you will reverse well before the stop is hit

the really funny thing is that no one tries to find out how the market moves.....if you have good risk management you do not need to find that out.

but i was curious and curiosity did not kill this cat [me] but it did kill my bank account...lost a lot of money

 

[traider]

For inexperienced traders, all in all out is better for multiple reasons. They don't get temptation to average down on losers. The delta of the position stays constant so it's easier to think about risk.

 

[systematictrader]

So Psychologically, which I agree is greatly important I can definitely see the good in it but am wondering profit wise and what are others experience...

any thoughts?

appreciate everyone's input.

in the end mathematically it most likely ends up being the same the times you get out in one shot you miss out on some gains but other times you preserve those gains that other wise you would've gave them back

thus the most important thing is psychologically

if you continue to struggle switch to options trading on whatever your trading and find a strategy where you can "roll" your trade so your potentially out but still capture more of the move if it continues your direction and have a limited loss if it doesn't, most importantly the time expiration enforeces patience, this is assuming your swing trading