To help the Atheists grasp the concept better.
- Thread starter peilthetraveler
- Start date
Again, stu another homerun.
You either believe or you don't. But what about this scenario, stu:
Einsteins's theory of relativity (or pick any extremely arcane mathematical solution), do you believe it or not?
If you say you believe it, is this because you understand it to be true, or are you taking its belief on an appeal to authority?
And, if you don't know it to be true because you don't understand the arcane mathematics, why isn't isn't it ok to say i DON'T KNOW FOR CERTAIN (Agnostic), but i am not a disbeliever either (Atheist), but I am leaning toward belief (theist)
I just don't know (because i am not privy to the advanced mathematics)
I'd put it this way:Quote from killthesunshine:
Again, stu another homerun.
You either believe or you don't. But what about this scenario, stu:
Einsteins's theory of relativity (or pick any extremely arcane mathematical solution), do you believe it or not?
If you say you believe it, is this because you understand it to be true, or are you taking its belief on an appeal to authority?
And, if you don't know it to be true because you don't understand the arcane mathematics, why isn't isn't it ok to say i DON'T KNOW FOR CERTAIN (Agnostic), but i am not a disbeliever either (Atheist), but I am leaning toward belief (theist)
I just don't know (because i am not privy to the advanced mathematics)
And, if you don't know it to be true because you don't understand the arcane mathematics, why isn't it ok to say i DON'T KNOW FOR CERTAIN (<s>Agnostic</s> Atheist), but i am not a disbeliever either (theist), but I am leaning toward belief (theist)
I just don't know (because i am not privy to the advanced mathematics) (Atheist)
My argument anyway is it's illogical to use the word agnostic in regard to being uncertain .
If Gnostic is a belief or a knowledge of spiritual things, Agnostic is without or no belief of spiritual things. How then can agnostic sensibly be a metaphor for "don't know" ?
If you don't know - you don't actually have belief . That is atheist.
If you don't know- but you have belief. That is theist.
Doubtful or non-committal in things about God(s) is 'a' - without knowledge/belief . The word for that is atheist.
My contention is there is not always some middle ground. This atheist / theist jobby is simply an example of that.
Belief in a higher being thought to be part of the genetic makeup of Humans.
Scientific American had a great article about it 7-8 years ago.
Antony Flew - World's Most Famous Atheist Accepts Existence of God
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Has Science Discovered God?
A half-century ago, in 1955, Professor Antony Flew set the agenda for modern atheism with his Theology and Falsification, a paper presented in a debate with C.S. Lewis. This work became the most widely reprinted philosophical publication of the last 50 years. Over the decades, he published more than 30 books attacking belief in God and debated a wide range of religious believers.
Then, in a 2004 Summit at New York University, Professor Flew announced that the discoveries of modern science have led him to the conclusion that the universe is indeed the creation of infinite Intelligence.
I am not going to get involved in this argument now. I have the Islamo-Nazis and their Allies in my crosshairs now, but I thought the con and pro sides on the existence of God here may find this video interesting, and maybe even more interesting the video which you can click at the end of this one which states the argument that persuaded Anthony Flew to become a believer.
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Has Science Discovered God?
A half-century ago, in 1955, Professor Antony Flew set the agenda for modern atheism with his Theology and Falsification, a paper presented in a debate with C.S. Lewis. This work became the most widely reprinted philosophical publication of the last 50 years. Over the decades, he published more than 30 books attacking belief in God and debated a wide range of religious believers.
Then, in a 2004 Summit at New York University, Professor Flew announced that the discoveries of modern science have led him to the conclusion that the universe is indeed the creation of infinite Intelligence.
I am not going to get involved in this argument now. I have the Islamo-Nazis and their Allies in my crosshairs now, but I thought the con and pro sides on the existence of God here may find this video interesting, and maybe even more interesting the video which you can click at the end of this one which states the argument that persuaded Anthony Flew to become a believer.
Gnostic=capable of holding a belief in God and willingly holding a positive belief in God.
Agnostic=capable of holding a belief in God but willingly chooses to say they are incapable of holding a belief in God because they hold a belief that an opinion of God must be grounded in their own previous opinion of what God is.
Atheist=capable of holding a belief in God but willingly holding the belief in non God.
All have the capability of holding a belief in God and the human will to continue to hold that belief, which is the key component.
Otherwise, some numb-skull might say this picture below is an atheist simply because the following is without belief or the will to hold a belief:
<img src=http://myshitpile.com/pics/crap.jpg>
A person becomes an atheist, becomes a theist, or becomes an agnostic...all require a decision by the mind the moment the concept of God is understood by them to any degree, whatever concept that may be, however it is still their choice to accept, reject, or claim they can't make up their mind to hold a positive or negative opinion on the existence of God. All are decision to accept, to reject, or to pretend they have no belief.
All accepting of a belief, then holding of of those beliefs happen by their choice of a particular belief and continual exercise of will to hold that belief...that is what makes a person human, is their capacity for holding a belief, and will to believe...and the ability to change a previously held belief.
People are never born theist, atheist, or agnostic. It is the only in the nature of a developed human being beyond infant stage who can understand a concept of God to accept, reject, or deny the ability to believe in God.
Once the cat is out of the bag, once the concept of God is introduced, then one of the three situations must automatically follow.
Oh, those who are capable of holding a belief in God, but have never heard of God...well, they are just primitives living in some primitive society.
No educated modern man could study history, art, or literature of the western and eastern world and not be exposed to the concept of God.
So a choice is made the moment the concept of God is understood to any degree, and that decision and position relative to the belief and a decision to hold that belief automatically follows.
All of these three situations of atheist, theist or agnostic of course have nothing to do with the actual reality of God or non God...any more than man's belief or disbelief or denial of some belief about life determines life external to the mind of a man.
Man doesn't determine reality by what he thinks, all he determines is what he believes about reality by the beliefs he holds and practices...
Agnostic=capable of holding a belief in God but willingly chooses to say they are incapable of holding a belief in God because they hold a belief that an opinion of God must be grounded in their own previous opinion of what God is.
Atheist=capable of holding a belief in God but willingly holding the belief in non God.
All have the capability of holding a belief in God and the human will to continue to hold that belief, which is the key component.
Otherwise, some numb-skull might say this picture below is an atheist simply because the following is without belief or the will to hold a belief:
<img src=http://myshitpile.com/pics/crap.jpg>
A person becomes an atheist, becomes a theist, or becomes an agnostic...all require a decision by the mind the moment the concept of God is understood by them to any degree, whatever concept that may be, however it is still their choice to accept, reject, or claim they can't make up their mind to hold a positive or negative opinion on the existence of God. All are decision to accept, to reject, or to pretend they have no belief.
All accepting of a belief, then holding of of those beliefs happen by their choice of a particular belief and continual exercise of will to hold that belief...that is what makes a person human, is their capacity for holding a belief, and will to believe...and the ability to change a previously held belief.
People are never born theist, atheist, or agnostic. It is the only in the nature of a developed human being beyond infant stage who can understand a concept of God to accept, reject, or deny the ability to believe in God.
Once the cat is out of the bag, once the concept of God is introduced, then one of the three situations must automatically follow.
Oh, those who are capable of holding a belief in God, but have never heard of God...well, they are just primitives living in some primitive society.
No educated modern man could study history, art, or literature of the western and eastern world and not be exposed to the concept of God.
So a choice is made the moment the concept of God is understood to any degree, and that decision and position relative to the belief and a decision to hold that belief automatically follows.
All of these three situations of atheist, theist or agnostic of course have nothing to do with the actual reality of God or non God...any more than man's belief or disbelief or denial of some belief about life determines life external to the mind of a man.
Man doesn't determine reality by what he thinks, all he determines is what he believes about reality by the beliefs he holds and practices...