to destriero (and all others that can help)

[DiceAreCast]

I have to disagree. Greeks reflect risk exposure and heading certain Greeks completely changes the risk, exposure, and expected payout profile of options positions. I have to side with @taowave on this. Every derivatives desk hedges certain greeks. They do matter, every new grad at a derivatives desk has to first learn and understand the origin and types of risk exposure. I am not sure why that is not clear to you.

Directional fly is NOT butterfly imo. "Directional fly" is some kind of ratio spreads where one is leaning towards the market moving in one direction than the other. And I thought @trend2009 is saying the strategy is butterfly. So now it's verticals? This is the strategy? Doing verticals? LOL

Greek is just a more organized and precise way to quantify everything. It's still the same framework greek or non-greek. LOL It's like saying "commerce" vs "doing business". At the end, you are still talking about the same thing. LOL

Option decay = drop in magnitude especially if you are doing longer-term short vol.

It's the profit that talks really so there is no point to argue. IMO option strategies that try to limit direction and magnitude are 1) very limited in profitability and 2) expensive. Verticals might work better because it's 2 legs so the cost is not too much but depending on the strikes of the 2 legs, it's basically a trade-off between profitability and how much delta and gamma risk you can hedge away.

How do you have such insight in his strategy? Are you DEST???!!!

This thread is now turning into "Who is Dest?"

 

[Saltynuts]

If you are going to rub it in, rub it in with music! BAH!

At least the Asian chick is real!

Sorry, sorry, you guys know I cannot help myself. :-(

Wholly SHIAT, you've really turned the corner on this whole music thing! I listened to that just the other day. Not QUITE as good at the original singer, but damned close. It literally sounds like a computer is playing the notes rather than a human, so incredible.

 

[JSOP]

How can you say a fly with Delta is not directional?? You are a funny guy..

Break down a fly and you will understand why I brought up verticals..How is a fly different than a split strike fly??

What does a condor break down to??

Just out of curiousity,what do yo trade??

Still doesn't change the fact that IMO option strategies that try to limit direction and magnitude are 1) very limited in profitability and 2) expensive. Verticals might work better because it's 2 legs so the cost is not too much but depending on the strikes of the 2 legs, it's basically a trade-off between profitability and how much delta and gamma risk you can hedge away.

Why are you so obsessed with butterflies? LOL This is what you trade? If you split butterflies up, they can be split into so many different combos, verticals, calls and puts individually, strips/straps, straddles even depending on how you split them. But what does it matter? LOL They still limit profitability and expensive and imo are very ill-suited for small trading accounts.

You are dest!! Definitely!! Only dest can be this dense, stubborn and obsessive. LOL And you said you have insight into what he trades. Nobody is supposed to have insights into what he trades. LOL

 

[JSOP]

People are not reading my posts of course. I never said greeks do not matter but greeks are not definitive nor is it set in stone. It only reflects the risk, exposure and payout profile of the option position AT THE TIME. Once the underlying changes, everything goes out of the door. So yes it's great to have some idea of what the position is and could be doing from reading the greeks but there is no point insisting on them and treating greeks like the bible or something.

At the most, I think of greeks in options are like the readings on the dashboard on a car. It only shows how the car is what the car is doing at the moment but never what's exactly going to do in the future. So there is no point obsessing over them. The most important thing to do is to focus on the road. That's what determines how you will drive your car.

 

[DiceAreCast]

I don't think you quite understand how options work. You are right that greeks are just a reflection of different risk exposures. But then you stop there. That, however, is just the beginning. Some trading desks have an edge in certain risk exposures and push that edge in size while hedging away other risk exposures they could never do so if they were exposed directionally to delta, the risk would by far exceed their risk parameters and potentially violate their mandate. Imagine every trading desk in a bank took delta exposure. The overall bank trading book would exhibit exorbitant risk exposure. Instead, each trading desk exposes itself to what it thinks it has an edge trading and in accordance with its mandate. The same applies to retail traders or semi-professionals. All the blessings to someone who has an edge in directional exposure. But it is a sub-optimal choice for someone trading vega with an edge to expose himself to delta.

People are not reading my posts of course. I never said greeks do not matter but greeks are not definitive nor is it set in stone. It only reflects the risk, exposure and payout profile of the option position AT THE TIME. Once the underlying changes, everything goes out of the door. So yes it's great to have some idea of what the position is and could be doing from reading the greeks but there is no point insisting on them and treating greeks like the bible or something.

At the most, I think of greeks in options are like the readings on the dashboard on a car. It only shows how the car is what the car is doing at the moment but never what's exactly going to do in the future. So there is no point obsessing over them. The most important thing to do is to focus on the road. That's what determines how you will drive your car.

 

[JSOP]

I don't think you quite understand how options work. You are right that greeks are just a reflection of different risk exposures. But then you stop there. That, however, is just the beginning. Some trading desks have an edge in certain risk exposures and push that edge in size while hedging away other risk exposures they could never do so if they were exposed directionally to delta, the risk would by far exceed their risk parameters and potentially violate their mandate. Imagine every trading desk in a bank took delta exposure. The overall bank trading book would exhibit exorbitant risk exposure. Instead, each trading desk exposes itself to what it thinks it has an edge trading and in accordance with its mandate. The same applies to retail traders or semi-professionals. All the blessings to someone who has an edge in directional exposure. But it is a sub-optimal choice for someone trading vega with an edge to expose himself to delta.

That's totally not what I was saying before. And this does not relate to what I was saying either. So anyway... LOL

 

[DiceAreCast]

That's what I said, I did not make any claim that you said something. And which part does not relate? Or you just like to say things?

That's totally not what I was saying before. And this does not relate to what I was saying either. So anyway... LOL

 

[JSOP]

That's what I said, I did not make any claim that you said something. And which part does not relate? Or you just like to say things?

Ok you are just replying to my comment but not responding to my comment? And besides what you said did NOT make sense. You have NO idea what you are talking about. I can't believe I actually debated with you before thinking I could have a meaningful discussion with you. Turns out you are just trolling here.

Forget it, putting you on Ignore. Not gonna waste more of my time replying to you.

 

[DiceAreCast]

That is really weird, when I actually responded exactly to your earlier points you made. And why would you put someone on ignore who attempts to reason with you, in a polite and calm manner. You have so far not stated at all which of my post content you disagree with.

Ok you are just replying to my comment but not responding to my comment? And besides what you said did NOT make sense. You have NO idea what you are talking about. I can't believe I actually debated with you before thinking I could have a meaningful discussion with you. Turns out you are just trolling here.

Forget it, putting you on Ignore. Not gonna waste more of my time replying to you.

 

[Laissez Faire]

This thread got legs! LOL. Bunch of adults bickering like insecure teenagers.

"I'm putting YOU on ignore. No, I'm putting YOU on ignore!" Yet they still seem to continue discussing with each other.

I think the purpose of the ignore function is to actually ignore people. What's the use if you have to announce it to the world and still continue reading the posts from the person you're ignoring?

Ridiculous.