Tips on the Mental Game
- Thread starter BobbiDigital
- Start date
Quote from BobbiDigital:
I meant to ask you this previously, would the TIME you enter (and exit) trades differ based on your TF? So an hourly TF, for instance, would you only place trades near 9:00, 10:00, etc? For a 15 minute, only 8:45, 9:00, 9:15, etc? - assuming the right set up is in place (be it from building on a prior TF, or using the bar's open price for a setup - are quick reverses back thru opening price not ideal?)
In other words, utilize the opening price principle on each trade, each bar (by getting in early/right direction)? That would make life a tad simpler(I could focus on setups that could potentially lead to trend bars, avoid chop, etc)
....I started getting quite a complex 'matrix' going w/ trend lines today visualizing a couple potential paths (got chopped up before the real move happened.
BD
No.. TIME is the EXACT SAME on all charts, just broken down into different chunks
If one of your set ups is based on the close of the current candle â then the opening of the next candle is the entry
It if ainât â then it ainât
When and where we enter â Must be based on a set up(s)
Now if you can get to the point of seeing how smaller TF candles builds a longer TF candle â then why wouldnât that be a set up
eta - if the longer TF is up... and the current longer TF candle is up... and price just bounced off longer TF support
And the current trend on your trading TF is up..
You sure as hell ain't gonna short it... and may even contemplate going long
==================================================================================
The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertain⦠The market is uncertainâ¦
I have no clue whether the next bar will be chop⦠a trend⦠a head fake⦠a stop run⦠or the mother of all trend barsâ¦. And I never will
Trade what you see â and to hell with the restâ¦..
We have a plan, which include set up(s)⦠we trade our plan⦠We have a plan, which include set ups)⦠we trade our plan⦠We have a plan, which include set up(s)⦠we trade our plan⦠We have a plan, which include set ups)⦠we trade our plan⦠We have a plan, which include set up(s)⦠we trade our plan⦠We have a plan, which include set ups)⦠we trade our plan⦠We have a plan, which include set up(s)⦠we trade our plan⦠We have a plan, which include set ups)⦠we trade our plan⦠We have a plan, which include set up(s)⦠we trade our plan⦠We have a plan, which include set ups)⦠we trade our plan⦠We have a plan, which include set up(s)⦠we trade our plan⦠We have a plan, which include set ups)⦠we trade our plan⦠We have a plan, which include set up(s)⦠we trade our plan⦠We have a plan, which include set ups)⦠we trade our plan⦠We have a plan, which include set up(s)⦠we trade our plan⦠We have a plan, which include set ups)⦠we trade our planâ¦
We have a plan, which include set up(s)⦠we trade our plan⦠We have a plan, which include set ups)⦠we trade our plan⦠We have a plan, which include set up(s)⦠we trade our plan⦠We have a plan, which include set ups)⦠we trade our plan⦠We have a plan, which include set up(s)⦠we trade our plan⦠We have a plan, which include set ups)⦠we trade our plan⦠We have a plan, which include set up(s)⦠we trade our plan⦠We have a plan, which include set ups)⦠we trade our plan⦠We have a plan, which include set up(s)⦠we trade our plan⦠We have a plan, which include set ups)⦠we trade our plan⦠We have a plan, which include set up(s)⦠we trade our plan⦠We have a plan, which include set ups)⦠we trade our plan⦠We have a plan, which include set up(s)⦠we trade our plan⦠We have a plan, which include set ups)⦠we trade our plan⦠We have a plan, which include set up(s)⦠we trade our plan⦠We have a plan, which include set ups)⦠we trade our planâ¦
Redundant ainât Iâ¦. (just trying to drive the message home)
RN
Long term support was previously broken as well as this week's support line being broken yesterday. Screaming sell with the risk being aggressive buyers could have driven price back up to resistance line (based on yesterday's close).
As is the case after a day spent breaking rules I didn't have my mental cap on yesterday. Two questions:
1. My signals consist of patterns after I've identified potential peaks (tops/bottoms) or valleys (dips to go-with trend). I have never placed a trade after the close, right at the open of a new bar. Isn't taking signals then always entering at the open price of the bar (like I previously asked)? Forgive my ignorance. I need to understand this as I'm not trading off signals (or setups) evidently.
2. Not sure I get the deeper meaning of small TF's building larger ones. Let me try, be easy on me:
Say, you have 6 candles on the 5 min TF, and on the 6th bar price closes in the middle of the range - the open of the 30 min. Once price returns to the high - it is the 5 minute high and 30 minute high. As this move (cycle) continues it begins to drag in longer TF's - more TF's - until support eventually fails and it may or may not repeat the process to the down side. Is this the concept (and ambush points)? The key being the smaller TF structure of the longer TF bar (s/r holding, etc.)
As is the case after a day spent breaking rules I didn't have my mental cap on yesterday. Two questions:
1. My signals consist of patterns after I've identified potential peaks (tops/bottoms) or valleys (dips to go-with trend). I have never placed a trade after the close, right at the open of a new bar. Isn't taking signals then always entering at the open price of the bar (like I previously asked)? Forgive my ignorance. I need to understand this as I'm not trading off signals (or setups) evidently.
2. Not sure I get the deeper meaning of small TF's building larger ones. Let me try, be easy on me:
Say, you have 6 candles on the 5 min TF, and on the 6th bar price closes in the middle of the range - the open of the 30 min. Once price returns to the high - it is the 5 minute high and 30 minute high. As this move (cycle) continues it begins to drag in longer TF's - more TF's - until support eventually fails and it may or may not repeat the process to the down side. Is this the concept (and ambush points)? The key being the smaller TF structure of the longer TF bar (s/r holding, etc.)
Throughout the day â focus primarily on the 30 min⦠while on the 5 min using vertical lines to segregate every 6 candles
Essentially youâre focusing on the longer TF candlesâ¦. while- noting on your trading TF â how the longer TF candles are being formedâ¦, by using vertical lines on your trading TF to define each 30 minute candle into what it is comprised of in 5 minute segments
While doing the above, pay special attention to the time, and PA â just as the current 30 min candle closes⦠and a new candle opensâ¦
RN [/B][/QUOTE]
Is the beginning of each bar a microcosm of the entire bar? (This would explain the importance of the 'open type' a la Market Profile)
You said focus on the PA and time..isn't time fixed?
Essentially youâre focusing on the longer TF candlesâ¦. while- noting on your trading TF â how the longer TF candles are being formedâ¦, by using vertical lines on your trading TF to define each 30 minute candle into what it is comprised of in 5 minute segments
While doing the above, pay special attention to the time, and PA â just as the current 30 min candle closes⦠and a new candle opensâ¦
RN [/B][/QUOTE]
Is the beginning of each bar a microcosm of the entire bar? (This would explain the importance of the 'open type' a la Market Profile)
You said focus on the PA and time..isn't time fixed?
BD
Recall I said there are many aspects to PA⦠and multiple TFsâ¦.
I also said; How small TFs build bigger TFs is but one aspect (Aspect # 1)
My point to repeating this
⢠I think understanding this first aspect is the foundation to understanding & tying all the other aspects together
⢠I would like you to try and keep this aspect separate from the rest, and focus on it as youâre trying to understand the entire picture â please
You typed
Then you typed
Exactlyâ¦
And this is exactly what Iâm trying to conveyâ¦.And what Iâm trying to get you to see/ understand
Smaller TF candles are indeed a microcosm (I use the term microscopic view) into a larger TF candle being created â over the entire path â of (and as) it is being created
===============================================================================
Then once you understand that discrete concept⦠the next step would be to grasp how a smaller TF â in its entirety â builds the higher TFâ¦
AND
How a smaller TF is a microscopic view into that larger TF â albeit a discrete higher TF candle⦠or the entire higher TF chart
But for now, and so we donât get it confused â letâs stick to one higher TF candle being formed⦠and how that would look in a smaller TF
==============================================================================
Taking ONLY this sentence, and using its information to create a candle on the higher TF
1.) What would that specific higher TF candle look like â please describe it
2.) Where, in relation to the preceding higher TF candle â does the higher TF candle described in your quote reside
=====================================================================
Hereâs the exercise - all in the longer TF
Ignore everything else youâve posted, and focus solely on the above quote â please draw me a mental picture in your words
FIRST
Define the range (so we have context)
You can use price levels (upper and lower)⦠You can use the preceding candle (its hi/ lo⦠or its open/ close) as the range⦠or you can use something else â but you define this range in enough detail so I can understand it / so I can see it (and remember I am a dumbass)
NEXT
Define and describe the preceding candle (so we have a reference)
Is it an up candle⦠is it a down candleâ¦or possibly is it a dojiâ¦.
How long is it (hi to lo)⦠how long are the tails (open to hi, and close to lo)⦠if they even exist
Describe it in enough detail â that I can visualize it in vivid detail
NEXT
Now define and describe the current candle â using only your quote above
Describe how it looks (its open, its close, the body.. the tails⦠is it an up or down candleâ¦
Describe where it exists in relationship to the range (you defined above)
Describe where it exist in relationship to the preceding candle (you defined and described above)
Last describe what it is doing using tour quote above
Paint a picture so detailed, yet simple - that even I understand it⦠so that when I visualize it, there is no doubt we are seeing the very same picture
=============================================================
This may sound like a stupid exerciseâ¦. but think about it for a momentâ¦
Is trading not seeing what has happenedâ¦,
Creating context out of thatâ¦,
Figuring out where price is, and what it is doing â within that contextâ¦
Then visualizing where price could go next
===========================================================
In doing the above exercise â Iâm trying to get you seeing (visualize) how a smaller TF is indeed a microscopic view into a larger TF
How smaller TF candles fit together â to build a larger TF candleâ¦
Ultimately how a smaller TF is the very foundation of a larger TF â albeit a discrete larger TF candle⦠or the entire larger TF chart
==========================================================
You now have two exercises
Using vertical lines on a 5 minute chart to define 30 minute candles
Verbally describing/ drawing a higher TF â with a range, and preceding candle â for context and reference⦠then a current candle based on 6 candles in a 5 minute TF
This last one needs to be done with enough specifics, and detail..., yet remain simple enough â that even I can understand it.
Without me assuming or creating anything additional â than the information you provided
RN
Recall I said there are many aspects to PA⦠and multiple TFsâ¦.
I also said; How small TFs build bigger TFs is but one aspect (Aspect # 1)
My point to repeating this
⢠I think understanding this first aspect is the foundation to understanding & tying all the other aspects together
⢠I would like you to try and keep this aspect separate from the rest, and focus on it as youâre trying to understand the entire picture â please
You typed
Then you typed
Exactlyâ¦
And this is exactly what Iâm trying to conveyâ¦.And what Iâm trying to get you to see/ understand
Smaller TF candles are indeed a microcosm (I use the term microscopic view) into a larger TF candle being created â over the entire path â of (and as) it is being created
===============================================================================
Then once you understand that discrete concept⦠the next step would be to grasp how a smaller TF â in its entirety â builds the higher TFâ¦
AND
How a smaller TF is a microscopic view into that larger TF â albeit a discrete higher TF candle⦠or the entire higher TF chart
But for now, and so we donât get it confused â letâs stick to one higher TF candle being formed⦠and how that would look in a smaller TF
==============================================================================
Taking ONLY this sentence, and using its information to create a candle on the higher TF
1.) What would that specific higher TF candle look like â please describe it
2.) Where, in relation to the preceding higher TF candle â does the higher TF candle described in your quote reside
=====================================================================
Hereâs the exercise - all in the longer TF
Ignore everything else youâve posted, and focus solely on the above quote â please draw me a mental picture in your words
FIRST
Define the range (so we have context)
You can use price levels (upper and lower)⦠You can use the preceding candle (its hi/ lo⦠or its open/ close) as the range⦠or you can use something else â but you define this range in enough detail so I can understand it / so I can see it (and remember I am a dumbass)
NEXT
Define and describe the preceding candle (so we have a reference)
Is it an up candle⦠is it a down candleâ¦or possibly is it a dojiâ¦.
How long is it (hi to lo)⦠how long are the tails (open to hi, and close to lo)⦠if they even exist
Describe it in enough detail â that I can visualize it in vivid detail
NEXT
Now define and describe the current candle â using only your quote above
Describe how it looks (its open, its close, the body.. the tails⦠is it an up or down candleâ¦
Describe where it exists in relationship to the range (you defined above)
Describe where it exist in relationship to the preceding candle (you defined and described above)
Last describe what it is doing using tour quote above
Paint a picture so detailed, yet simple - that even I understand it⦠so that when I visualize it, there is no doubt we are seeing the very same picture
=============================================================
This may sound like a stupid exerciseâ¦. but think about it for a momentâ¦
Is trading not seeing what has happenedâ¦,
Creating context out of thatâ¦,
Figuring out where price is, and what it is doing â within that contextâ¦
Then visualizing where price could go next
===========================================================
In doing the above exercise â Iâm trying to get you seeing (visualize) how a smaller TF is indeed a microscopic view into a larger TF
How smaller TF candles fit together â to build a larger TF candleâ¦
Ultimately how a smaller TF is the very foundation of a larger TF â albeit a discrete larger TF candle⦠or the entire larger TF chart
==========================================================
You now have two exercises
Using vertical lines on a 5 minute chart to define 30 minute candles
Verbally describing/ drawing a higher TF â with a range, and preceding candle â for context and reference⦠then a current candle based on 6 candles in a 5 minute TF
This last one needs to be done with enough specifics, and detail..., yet remain simple enough â that even I can understand it.
Without me assuming or creating anything additional â than the information you provided
RN
I do not understand this question⦠and if I were to assume â I could come up with a thousand different responses â such as;
Time has fixed increments (seconds, minutes, hours, days.. etc.).. Yet even the atomic clock needs reset periodically
================================================
The time the mkt opens / closes is fixed â to a point â because extraneous events do occur
Time is fixed into the specific increment(s) â we define â as a TF on any given chart (1 min chart, 5 min chart, 30 min chart, whatever TF chart)
The time a 5 min candle opens and closes is fixed⦠as is the time all other candles open/ close - on their specific TFs
10:03 AM and 13 seconds â is the same time across all charts â what is different is the state of the current candle being formed - on each discrete chart (could be one candleâs hi, anotherâs lo, and a third candleâs body.. or something totally different)⦠AND this is exactly what we must visualize, then exploit
==========================================================
Time is fixed⦠yet time is not fixed⦠what is absolutely fixed â is what is occurring at any specific point in timeâ¦
Yet what is occurring may seem incongruent when viewed across multiple TFsâ¦
What we must do is reconcile it⦠so it is congruent⦠so it all ties together⦠so it paints us a picture/ tells us a story
This is when a significant turnabout will occur
RN
Say, you have 6 candles on the 5 min TF, and on the 6th bar price closes in the middle of the range
Taking ONLY this sentence, and using its information to create a candle on the higher TF
1.) What would that specific higher TF candle look like â please describe it
2.) Where, in relation to the preceding higher TF candle â does the higher TF candle described in your quote reside
1. Range
Preceding candle:
Open: 137.83
Close: 137.27
Range: 137.21 - 138.04
2. Describe Preceding Candle
Down Candle with a long body
Range: 137.21 - 138.04 (83 cents)
Open to High Tail: 21 cents
Close to Low Tail: 6 cents
3. Describe Current Candle
Down Candle with body in upper portion of it's range
Open to High Tail: 3 cents
Close to Low Tail: 33 cents
Range: 136.58 - 137.30, 'overlaps' preceding candle's range by 9 cents
After a trend bar down, price opens near the preceding candles low.
1. It continues lower on the first 5 minute bar to the previous day's low.
2. On the second 5 minute bar price bounces back thru the current 30 minute candle's open price by 3 cents.
3. The 3rd, 4th, & 5th 5 minute bars make a new low and form a bottom
4. The 6th 5 minute candle goes up returning to the center area of the 30 minute candle where it closes - 30 cents below preceding candle's low
Taking ONLY this sentence, and using its information to create a candle on the higher TF
1.) What would that specific higher TF candle look like â please describe it
2.) Where, in relation to the preceding higher TF candle â does the higher TF candle described in your quote reside
1. Range
Preceding candle:
Open: 137.83
Close: 137.27
Range: 137.21 - 138.04
2. Describe Preceding Candle
Down Candle with a long body
Range: 137.21 - 138.04 (83 cents)
Open to High Tail: 21 cents
Close to Low Tail: 6 cents
3. Describe Current Candle
Down Candle with body in upper portion of it's range
Open to High Tail: 3 cents
Close to Low Tail: 33 cents
Range: 136.58 - 137.30, 'overlaps' preceding candle's range by 9 cents
After a trend bar down, price opens near the preceding candles low.
1. It continues lower on the first 5 minute bar to the previous day's low.
2. On the second 5 minute bar price bounces back thru the current 30 minute candle's open price by 3 cents.
3. The 3rd, 4th, & 5th 5 minute bars make a new low and form a bottom
4. The 6th 5 minute candle goes up returning to the center area of the 30 minute candle where it closes - 30 cents below preceding candle's low
Quote from Redneck:
I do not understand this question⦠and if I were to assume â I could come up with a thousand different responses â such as;
Time has fixed increments (seconds, minutes, hours, days.. etc.).. Yet even the atomic clock needs reset periodically
================================================
The time the mkt opens / closes is fixed â to a point â because extraneous events do occur
Time is fixed into the specific increment(s) â we define â as a TF on any given chart (1 min chart, 5 min chart, 30 min chart, whatever TF chart)
The time a 5 min candle opens and closes is fixed⦠as is the time all other candles open/ close - on their specific TFs
10:03 AM and 13 seconds â is the same time across all charts â what is different is the state of the current candle being formed - on each discrete chart (could be one candleâs hi, anotherâs lo, and a third candleâs body.. or something totally different)⦠AND this is exactly what we must visualize, then exploit
==========================================================
Time is fixed⦠yet time is not fixed⦠what is absolutely fixed â is what is occurring at any specific point in timeâ¦
Yet what is occurring may seem incongruent when viewed across multiple TFsâ¦
What we must do is reconcile it⦠so it is congruent⦠so it all ties together⦠so it paints us a picture/ tells us a story
This is when a significant turnabout will occur
RN
Hopefully started seeing some of this today. I was trying to extrapolate out PA across longer TF's as the day unfolded.
I was expecting another wave of selling thru the day's low (SPY) like Friday, but because the open price was 'in play' perhaps I could've anticipated a rally.
Based on prior days and the first 30 minutes of trading or so, should I strive to 'visualize' the rest of the day?
Longer term context