Tiny 3 may eventually file Chapter 7 bankrupty protection

well it's pretty clear the govt is not going to let the auto companies fail. Obama said it himself, and this weekend is just the start.

I still dont know how they are going to manage to compete even if the immediate crisis is avoided. It seems just keep replacing the bandage instead of stop the bleeding.
 
Time to throw more money at worthless companies, there is no turnaround coming for these big 3. They are going to "loan" them money at the tax payers expense, the only reason they are bailing them out is because of the amount of jobs that would be lost if they didn't bail them out which would be approx 2 million. 1 in 10 jobs come from the auto industry in the US, so basically what they are doing is "loaning" them money to keep the economy from losing even more jobs. Worthless companies don't deserve to be bailed out, if they didn't make any profits during the biggest economical boom in history what makes you think that now they will be able to turn around these companies, they have restructured many times before and haven't even succeeded at making a penny doing it.
 
Quote from newguy05:

well it's pretty clear the govt is not going to let the auto companies fail. Obama said it himself, and this weekend is just the start.

I still dont know how they are going to manage to compete even if the immediate crisis is avoided. It seems just keep replacing the bandage instead of stop the bleeding.
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Obama and congress cannot continue financing these jackasses forever. The voters will not stand for it.

Unions serve very little purpose in a completely industrialized, first world country. The could certainly help India or China though.
 
Quote from TraderZones:

How much does GM spend each year in providing healthcare to RETIREES??? $5 billion? How many companies do that now?

If I owned any of the big 3, I would shut down ALL american ops and shift it to an Asian country or Mexico, as far from unions as possible.
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On the other hand ever seen the standard of living in asia or mexico?
Those are countries that exemplify what happens to its people when you have no unions or human rights etc...Is that what you want?A race to the bottom.GM's union may be bad but who stuck a gun to the ceo's head and forced him to sign the deals?
Who refused to make or market smaller cars like toyota when oil was going up?Who fought against raising gas mileage standards?

As for GM's health care costs that is the exact reason we need a national healthcare sysytem.What we have now is a sham.Corporations all over are gettin g killed by the healthcare business sham.Healthcare is an oxymoron in this country .
 
They did make smaller cars. We just didnt like them or buy them. We can hardly blame them for building what we bought. They have sold countless half and 3/4 ton trucks in the past 20 years.

Gas has really only been outrageous for what two years? So they were supposed to foresee that three or four years ago and completely revamp their operations for a relatively brief very high oil price run?

I doubt it will last forever but I paid 1.49 for regular yesterday.

Thats not a very good argument for parking my tahoe. Which has been a very good vehicle.
 
Quote from 151:

They did make smaller cars. We just didnt like them or buy them. We can hardly blame them for building what we bought. They have sold countless half and 3/4 ton trucks in the past 20 years.

Gas has really only been outrageous for what two years? So they were supposed to foresee that three or four years ago and completely revamp their operations for a relatively brief very high oil price run?

I doubt it will last forever but I paid 1.49 for regular yesterday.

Thats not a very good argument for parking my tahoe. Which has been a very good vehicle.
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Very good points. I don't think people here realize this is not about the auto industry anyway. Once they see many other companies failing, they will understand how credit is wrecking havoc on main street. And they will realize very very soon, the damage of BK in the CDS market.

Let them continue to blame mismanagement or poor quality cars, it is irrelevant. Toyota, Honda, Daimler.. all in serious pain. I'm as new to this as can be, and even I can see it. Makes me laugh at how short sited people are.

Any company, in any industry with a lot of debt is in deep chit. And that is a lot of companies. It is hitting main street.

Why did it hit here first? Big ticket item that needs financing. Like.... a house.
 
Quote from dsq:

GM's union may be bad but who stuck a gun to the ceo's head and forced him to sign the deals?

The UNIONS of course. Don't you follow the news?

As for GM's health care costs that is the exact reason we need a national healthcare sysytem.What we have now is a sham.Corporations all over are gettin g killed by the healthcare business sham.Healthcare is an oxymoron in this country .

The UNIONS forced the automakers to do this. That is the main reason the automakers cannot invest in other things or compete head to head. Don't start blaming everyone else. GM has more retirees earning medical than they have employees!

Auto Union workers have been driving their employers into the ground for decades
 
Quote from nutmeg:

"Managers blame the workers and workers blame their bosses. Frankly, I have met boring, upwardly bootlicking auto executives who spent lives devoted to avoiding having to think.

On the other hand, workers have told me of some act of sabotage he or she performed in retaliation for sadistic bosses. Somehow, I don’t think the customers who got the sabotaged vehicles ended up sympathizing with either side.

I think they went out and bought Toyota Camrys next time they needed a car. What we need to realize is that we are all in this together, and if Detroit goes down, we are all in bad shape."

http://jackshow.blogs.com/jack/auto_industry/
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Yeah, Japanese management is set up with a different outlook, if a worker has a problem it is his bosses' problem.. Many American bosses thrive on screwing with their workers, it's the English tradition, they used to call managers "prosecutors"...
 
Quote from 151:

They did make smaller cars. We just didnt like them or buy them. We can hardly blame them for building what we bought. They have sold countless half and 3/4 ton trucks in the past 20 years.

Gas has really only been outrageous for what two years? So they were supposed to foresee that three or four years ago and completely revamp their operations for a relatively brief very high oil price run?

I doubt it will last forever but I paid 1.49 for regular yesterday.

Thats not a very good argument for parking my tahoe. Which has been a very good vehicle.
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Exactly right. Bet you can't wait to trade your Tahoe for one of these. Now that our glorious government will be running the show, this is the future. I'm sure they'll sell like hot cakes.
<img src=http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2212594
 

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Any doubts now about unions being the biggest problem for automakers? Unions would rather shut down the entire industry, rather than make reasonable wages. Unions are insane, and should be killed off.

Let the big 3 go into bankruptcy, slash the union contracts, and start where wages SHOULD be for this kind of horrbile market

=== BREAKING STORY ==================

"Auto bailout talks collapse over union wages"

WASHINGTON (AP) — A $14 billion emergency bailout for U.S. automakers collapsed in the Senate Thursday night after the United Auto Workers refused to accede to Republican demands for swift wage cuts.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said he was "terribly disappointed" about the demise of an emerging bipartisan deal to rescue Detroit's Big Three.

He spoke shortly after Republicans left a closed-door meeting where they balked at giving the automakers federal aid unless their powerful union agreed to slash wages next year to bring them into line with those of Japanese carmakers.

Republican Sen. George V. Voinovich of Ohio, a strong bailout supporter, said the UAW was willing to make the cuts — but not until 2011.
 
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