TIMES method

uswolfus · Dec 22, 2004

I took the TIMES training and traded it for about 6 months. Can give you more details by PM, basically its pattern recognition of divergences using MACD and stochastic indicators on 1m and 3m charts. Works well on days with good range and movement but like any divergence indicators can give a lot of false readings on strong trend days. You will need 2 things to make real $$ with TIMES - good sense for filtering out trades in bad market conditions (eg don't trade in congestion); and develop your own sense of when to exit a trade. Their standard exits based on targets will make money approx 3 days per week but you will give it back on the other two (in my experience). At least recently less than 50% of signals on their own recap documents achieved their targets.

Would definitely not pay the $5K without some kind of money back guarantee. Other trading training courses do have this kind of guarantee if you look for it.

qtip · Dec 22, 2004

Quote from uswolfus:

I took the TIMES training and traded it for about 6 months. Can give you more details by PM, basically its pattern recognition of divergences using MACD and stochastic indicators on 1m and 3m charts. Works well on days with good range and movement but like any divergence indicators can give a lot of false readings on strong trend days. You will need 2 things to make real $$ with TIMES - good sense for filtering out trades in bad market conditions (eg don't trade in congestion); and develop your own sense of when to exit a trade. Their standard exits based on targets will make money approx 3 days per week but you will give it back on the other two (in my experience). At least recently less than 50% of signals on their own recap documents achieved their targets.

Would definitely not pay the $5K without some kind of money back guarantee. Other trading training courses do have this kind of guarantee if you look for it.

Thanks for the insight. I have a trader friend who also took the TIMES course. Said they were nice guys, but by no means real traders. Trading is hard and there is no way to make it as easy as they say. He said basically they kill you with kindness until you purchase the course.

For me, I need to see someone trade...

qtip · Dec 22, 2004

Quote from version77:

I guess there is a lot less risk having 5K handed over to you by
credit card or whatever than actually putting your $$$ in the
futures market ect,... These guys are no dummies...

Even if they only get 3 a day X 5K = 15k a day = 75k a week =
$3,900,000.00 a year. I doubt if they are doing that but if they
were... Why trade at all if big bucks are flowing in and all you have
to do is talk all day long?

I agree...! It is easier to sell a product than trade for real. I have a trader friend who signed up at a trade show. There were 15 others who also signed up.

15 x $5,000 = $75,000

Now that is the best way to make money!

Golfman25 · Dec 22, 2004

I attended their free presentation at traders expo. He also put on a seminar over at the cbot.com. From what I can see, I wouldn't pay them $5 let alone $5,000. It seems that they simply focus on the setup, double botom/top with Stochs and Macd divergence. Simple enough. Problem is trading it. Without, entry, exit, risk control and money management parameters, it isn't going to do a whole lot of good. Not sure if they talk about that in their paid "training." One thing I have noticed from them, and others, is when asked about sucess rate, percent wins etc., they say "It depends upon how you trade the system." In other words, how you enter, exit, manage the trade, etc. We'll for the money these "trainer" types charge, you better tell me these details and give me some idea of what to expect. You can develop a system like they teach on your own and be so much better off. Good luck.

qtip · Dec 22, 2004

I did find this one company that actually trades live while you watch based off their indicator. www.ftacademy.com

You guys may want to check it out. I wasn't able to do thier free trial, but if someone has, please let us know how it goes.

claudiakristic · Dec 22, 2004

FWIW, I have attended the free Traders International afternoon training session 3 times in the past several weeks after seeing the Traders International webinar on the CBOT website. Observations of those experiences:

* Most of the session is spent looking over historical intraday charts and pinpointing entries in hindsight. No surprise that approximately 90% of the hindsight trades were profitable and the rest were breakeven.

* During all 3 sessions, those in attendance saw trades taken in real time. I watched every single trade get stopped out (these trades were shorts taken on days when the obvious bias was upward).

* The speaker talks about how much money can be made every single day with the TIMES method, yet there he is every single day talking instead of trading.

* On two occassions the speaker hemmed & hawed when pressed for details concerning trades he was highlighting.

As someone said earlier, something just doesn't quite add up..

~Claudia K.

qtip · Dec 22, 2004

Quote from claudiakristic:

FWIW, I have attended the free Traders International afternoon training session 3 times in the past several weeks after seeing the Traders International webinar on the CBOT website. Observations of those experiences:

* Most of the session is spent looking over historical intraday charts and pinpointing entries in hindsight. No surprise that approximately 90% of the hindsight trades were profitable and the rest were breakeven.

* During all 3 sessions, those in attendance saw trades taken in real time. I watched every single trade get stopped out (these trades were shorts taken on days when the obvious bias was upward).

* The speaker talks about how much money can be made every single day with the TIMES method, yet there he is every single day talking instead of trading.

* On two occassions the speaker hemmed & hawed when pressed for details concerning trades he was highlighting.

As someone said earlier, something just doesn't quite add up..

~Claudia K.

I have not seen the CBOT seminars, but I'm sure they are not much different from the Trade Shows. One thing that has changed is that an actual trade was placed. Did you see the order entry panel when the trade was taken? Or was it just verbal of when the trade would have been taken? I think this makes a big difference... As we all know, if we have limit order in place, we may not always get filled... I know everyone has experienced that.

claudiakristic · Dec 23, 2004

Quote from qtip:

I have not seen the CBOT seminars, but I'm sure they are not much different from the Trade Shows. One thing that has changed is that an actual trade was placed. Did you see the order entry panel when the trade was taken? Or was it just verbal of when the trade would have been taken? I think this makes a big difference... As we all know, if we have limit order in place, we may not always get filled... I know everyone has experienced that.

The CBOT webinar is exactly like the live trade show. In fact, during the webinar the speaker went live.

The live trades were only verbal, i saw no order entry screen. But who knows, perhaps the speaker has multiple monitors for that, or really advanced speech-recognition software that can parse his spoken words and place the trades for him

. It doesn't matter, it's just part of the sales pitch.

It's funny you mention the limit order: the speaker suggests to always use a market order ("for 'guaranteed' fill"). When reviewing the historical trades, the speaker obviously relies on hypothetical fills. On more than one occasion, the speaker assumed a fill when such a fill in real trading would have been dubious, ie. buying the low of a bar. When the dubious fills were pointed out by others in attendance, the speaker conceded.

version77 · Dec 23, 2004

Quote from claudiakristic:

When the dubious fills were pointed out by others in attendance, the speaker conceded.

Here ye Here ye

I now pronounce the Times Method on 100 years probabtion for
letting a fabrication out into the midst of our countrymen.

This Case is Closed

qtip · Dec 23, 2004

Quote from claudiakristic:

The CBOT webinar is exactly like the live trade show. In fact, during the webinar the speaker went live.

The live trades were only verbal, i saw no order entry screen. But who knows, perhaps the speaker has multiple monitors for that, or really advanced speech-recognition software that can parse his spoken words and place the trades for him . It doesn't matter, it's just part of the sales pitch.

It's funny you mention the limit order: the speaker suggests to always use a market order ("for 'guaranteed' fill"). When reviewing the historical trades, the speaker obviously relies on hypothetical fills. On more than one occasion, the speaker assumed a fill when such a fill in real trading would have been dubious, ie. buying the low of a bar. When the dubious fills were pointed out by others in attendance, the speaker conceded.

That is funny... I guess they don't understand that traders have become more savvy in regards to services out there. I really think there target audience is the newbie who doesn't know any better. Of course, everyday there is someone new who wants to take on trading so I don't see them out of business anytime soon...

Also, when the ES has a daily range about 10 to 12 points and they are trying to take 2 points out, how are you going to use a market order? How do you know when to get out and when you don't know when to get in?

Well, these are the questions I asked and of course they didn't have any real answers. I would say, NEWBIES BEWARE!