Time & Sales

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boomdog

When watching the Time & Sales window does anyone know what contract size Market Markers use to break up their orders? >5, >10 ect. Thanks.
 
boomdog said:
When watching the Time & Sales window does anyone know what contract size Market Markers use to break up their orders? >5, >10 ect. Thanks.
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The industry is not that simple but some exchanges have a min size a market maker must show. On the AMEX it is 10. The market makers mostly gets directed order flow so they do not have to be the best to play. They only have to match the best market.
 
Thanks Robert for your reply. I really appreciate that. What I failed to mention in my question was that I was interested in the NQ Futures. Does that change your answer?
Thanks again.

Loren
 
boomdog said:
Thanks Robert for your reply. I really appreciate that. What I failed to mention in my question was that I was interested in the NQ Futures. Does that change your answer?
Thanks again.

Loren
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Yes it does. When you said "5", "10" I assumed it was about equity options. When it comes to futures I have no experiance with how a MM puts themselves out there. How would it help to know when you can't tell the difference between an order from a MM, customer, institution, hedger etc.
 
What I've been told, just not very sure of the accuracy, is that most retail traders stay around 5 contracts or less. A larger retail trader might go as high as 10, and that is a pretty hefty acct. Insititionals will place contracts maybe a little <10 and certainly higher than 10. Just trying to get a better read on what I'm seeing in the Time and Sales window, and I'm not confident with the info I've been told. Do you have any contacts might shed some light on this Robert? Again, I really appreciate your time.
Thanks
 
boomdog said:
What I've been told, just not very sure of the accuracy, is that most retail traders stay around 5 contracts or less. A larger retail trader might go as high as 10, and that is a pretty hefty acct. Insititionals will place contracts maybe a little <10 and certainly higher than 10. Just trying to get a better read on what I'm seeing in the Time and Sales window, and I'm not confident with the info I've been told. Do you have any contacts might shed some light on this Robert? Again, I really appreciate your time.
Thanks
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Sorry, I do not have enough data to support any real information. I expect it varies based on the size of the account, not their description. A retail account with $10mm might trade bigger than hedge fund manager with a $5mm allocation. I've seen both. I've also seen an account with $300K trade over 5K futures in a day.

My question is how does this information help you make money?
 
My thinking was that if I see a larger number of contracts trading at a tight price range it would indicate institutional traders. Small orders would be most retail traders. 95% of retail traders lose money. Trying to follow the market movers if you will.
 
boomdog said:
My thinking was that if I see a larger number of contracts trading at a tight price range it would indicate institutional traders. Small orders would be most retail traders. 95% of retail traders lose money. Trying to follow the market movers if you will.
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OK, this is a guess based on my experiance. Just a guess.

  • Institutional traders don't scalp. They take directional positions in future or use futures to hedge "something." For the purpose of this, I'll describe an Institutional trader a someone that works for a Hedge fund, CPO or CTA. They do not look to make 2 or 3 ticks on a ES future. Their size will be based on the allaoction. Could be 25 futures, could be 5000. If they buy or sell large lots, it might be using the larger SP future with the use of a broker.
  • The average retail trader will either take a small position and ride it or look for small moves for day trades. I'd say 1-5 is very typical. Between these two types of accounts there is an endless number of variations.
  • A futures MM takes short term positions and provides liquidity. They do not tend to take liquidity unless there is news or an arb.
  • I disagree with the statement that 95% of retail traders lose money. That seems very random.
 
I don't try to scalp anymore. Lost money. I don't trade the ES anymore either. I do like the NQ because it has the largest daily range. It makes nice directional moves as well. When I started looking at Time and Sales, I was trying to get another edge. When I refer to a retail trader it would be someone like myself that trades from home as an individual trader. That's just the term I've heard and that most of these type of traders only 5% ever trade succussfully. I don't have any real facts on that number though Robert. It seems like a really high number to me as well.
 
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