Tight Stops

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Hang on, we've degenerated into a slanging match again.

Come on guys, no-one benefits from this.

To Wavetrader, listen man, I have no problem with you and have never flamed you (or anyone else) but let me explain to you how you come across in your posts.

If you come here to help others and you are an experienced mentor as you say, then why have you no time or patience for people? It seems that almost every post of yours contains an insult for someone. You are an older guy and surely you know by now that attacking and criticising people is not going to endear you to them or make them listen to what you are saying.

As someone who sits and trades the market every day, I really can't tell whether you know what you're talking about or not. Even by stating your trades, you have not really gone into any rationale behind them. Anyone can say I'm short here, "I'm long here." Maybe you are a brilliant discretionary trader, who knows? But that is something that I don't think can be taught anyway.

You come to this site for a reason. I'm not sure what it is though. If it is to genuinely teach others please try to be polite and patient and explain to ET members what your philosophies and techniques are. You can do this in a way that will not allow anyone to copy you, and it will also gain you the credibility that you crave.

So far you have opened a thread with a generalisation. "never more than 6 ticks", then you have insulted anyone who questions you or can't immediately see the logic in your unclear statements, you have been constantly "leaving" this site never to return since page 7, you go on boating holidays and to sleep except that you post again soon after, you have not posted one piece of information that as a professional trader I have been impressed with, and finally you have shown that you are unaware of any relationship between the stock and bond markets (which is staggering).

Please understand that I AM NOT ATTACKING YOU, or trying to put you down. However you really have not come across very well at all and have appeared to be childish, angry and not in control of yourself which are the character traits of someone who will get killed in the markets.

For the record I hope you are a great trader as we need as many as possible on this site, and I really dislike the abuse you have received from others. However, the only thing that makes me believe you are not making all this up is that I can't believe anyone would do it in such an unbelievable way and so maybe you are genuine.

Please respond to this post and discuss what I have said. I'm trying to help.
 
Well,

I have been quietly reading and watching you dig your grave. This is so funny watching you bait your potential victims. How would anybody want to trade with you knowing your quest to enter ET and take them by storm, and make a complete fool of yourself.

You state that you were thinking of advertising here while throughout the entire thread you proved that you think one thought and express other thoughts to suit you. Can you be trusted? I say no.

I will not participate in your games Dunce Wavebator. I got to hand it to Lefty to make a fool out of you. Lefty you were a gentleman and did not stoop to Dunce Wavebators level and you did not play into anything.

As far as the competition with Scientist, Wavebator et al...Well why would I need to do that? I don't need it as trading is a personal competition. I do not trade other peoples money or sell a chatroom, so what benefit could be gained for me? I do not need to prove to anybody but myself how good or bad I am at trading...

I personally do not scalp the ES anymore and DO find the 6 tick stop interesting and was drawn to this thread with the opening post. I subscribed to it and remained here to observe the mentality of a trader on a quest to get banned and to harass members here. I enjoyed watching you dig your own grave...does this make me evil? Well perhaps I did enjoy it too much :) But really Dunce Wavebator, I do not hate you or Scientist. I would not want to fill my heart with such hate that you have outwardly displayed with your posts.

All the best to you...Dunce WaveBator and its you against the world...

Moderator, Don't you think its about time?

Michael B.
 
Wavetrader came on and made an assertive statement that 6 tick stop losses were the secret to trading the eminis. Then he was countered by a few probably profitable and decent traders who dared to question this. Rather then trade notes about how perhaps different styles and strategies lend themselves to different stop placement (and wavetraders original post certianly made it seem like no other strategies are valid) it quickly degenerated (and then regenerated despite numerous claims of being over) into one of the best flame fests ever on this board. Now, if you are inclined to read through all this, I think you might agree that it would be possible to learn from the posts of Lefty, Scientist and wavertrader. On the other hand perhaps a night of reruns would be more entertaining though not as informative....Nah actually this was the most fun ever. At least wavetrader finally got banned, something had to give here.
 
Quote from vikana:

WaveTrader2004,

Sorry to see that you've been unable to keep your language clean. Your seemed to have things to contribute, but alas ... We really don't need behavior like this.

Your account will be deactivated shortly.
More...

of course he did that on purpose, one thing clear though, I am glad I didn't buy any of his books if his call is of any indicator of his methods, go lefty.
 
Thanks:
I think this thread is one that a newbie could really learn from IF he or she were willing to take an active part in their education and do the follow-up work. One of the things a new or inexperienced trader can learn from is the analysis of the trading that did occur. For my part, I would grade my trading at about a C. I did not correctly anticipate how price would move, even though I should know better. In my opinion, preparation including visualizing what you can expect and what you will do when you see it, is very important. I did a poor job of anticipating the correct "type" of day even though I have all the tools to get right. In contrast, Mr. Gilmore anticipated the day correctly, and that is why he was able to trade the range effectively. Early in the session, he knew what to look for, and when he saw it, he took his shots., making 3 points right away. Later in the day, I was able to re-focus and get on track. I thought we would see a late day reversal that would change the market's direction from short to long. We did see a change in direction but it took the form of a breakout from a relatively narrow range early in the day. At this point, I was able to use my experience and whatever market feel I have, to get on board, moving in and out, as I felt the market momentum change. Here my work to research price action paid off as I was looking for specific kinds of action at a particular time (2pm), when I saw it, I believed it and acted. I was looking in the right place at the right time. I give myself a C+ here. At the end of the day, again I was looking for a specific kind of price action that, based on my research, is generated by professionals hedging bond positions. I saw the signals, but this time I did not believe it, and as a result, I missed a profitable setup. Here I give myself a D. Mr. Gilmore at this point gets a D- in my opinion. As we found from our interaction, he insisted that there was no real connection between bonds and equity markets. Given his skill level, this is ironic, and all the more significant because he seemed resistant to the idea. Not willing to even consider the concept. Although it may not be appropriate for evaluation, I consider that Mr. Gilmore's temperment may cause him to miss some opportunities because he refuses to see a connection, or to believe it when it is in front of him. In contrast, I try to have no opinion, I simply observe and try to understand why a setup exists later. Although I have a constructed a mental framework as regards probable market paths, I know it is possible for anything to occur at any time. I hope this armchair analysis is of some help to traders looking for clues as to how to approach the trading day. Regards, Lefty
 
Your comments are on the mark... love the attitude.

You've given me some good ideas re: things to research during off hours. Thanks for that.

Too bad Gilmore got booted... he really was bringing something useful to the table. However even if he didn't get the boot I doubt he would have stayed around long... just trolling for business IMO.

Regarding the original topic of the thread -- I noticed BG typically used a 6T C&R stop.. somtimes a 4T stop... however it seems like he actually scratched for the majority of his losers long before letting them stop out. So much for his "secret" 6T stop :D

J
 
Hey Guys:

I still have my doubts as to whether a 6 tick stop works, but one thing that is obvious is that using that stop size, you have to be willing to re-enter a number of times before you get it right. If that is so, it means that there is an extra cost to using it, that has to be taken into account. During my review of the charts I looked at how Gilmore entered his trades. His method differs from mine, but I did not get the sense that his trades "took off" right away. In fact, I noticed that he had to wait around for things to develop just about the same amount of time as I did. I also noticed that there are a number of situations where I am likely to exit on a stop of less than 2.5 points.
 
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