Tight Stops

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Actions speak louder than words...Its up to you. If you have a change of heart about your arrogant stance then I hope you discover all that you can. Life is so short and time goes by faster and faster each day.

I will place you on ignore soon, as I do not want to be distracted further and please no more PM's with your words.

Please do not insult me further here or elsewhere, with your promises or apologies.

When you demonstrate that you can behave yourself, I will approach you.

Scientist, good trading to you. I do not apologize for what is and has transpired. I stand for this. I hope you can understand that I wish the best for you. As I have said earlier, trading is my lifes work and if you are a trader then you are my friend. When you begin to trade, I wish you all the success you can realize.

Michael B.


Quote from Scientist:

Michael, it does come across like a personal vendetta. Incidentally, I have gone through my PM archives just then, and searches for various terms that might be related to solicitation. I didn't find any.

What I did find, however, was a PM sent a long time ago to YOU, asking to resolve our conflicts, asking for a break from all the hate-action, and asking for peace, for me to not attack you anymore, and mutually. You ignored it. You totally blasted it, you weren't interested. You were never interested. You've literally made it your mission to consistently denunciate me, spread lies about me, flame me and bash me. You think that's nice?

And worse even, you go all out of yourself if I actually reply to you in same kind. What am I supposed to do? Say: "Yes master, you are my superior, you are always right"? Remember, you consistently claim to be "superior" to me since you're "older than me". You know what, you are totally off-track there. This is an inernet forum, where neither do you know my age, nor do I know yours. You could be a 13-year old, and I could be 67. How would you know? What if I just pretend to me young? What if you just pretend to be old? The point is, it doesn't matter, and I think your consistent "demand for respect" for your age specifically etc is misplaced. I can't see you, so I respect you according to what you say, not how old you look. You have not done anything to gain my respect. Many people here have my respect, I would never even dare insult them. Speak Cutten, Girlpower, riskarb, acrary etc. I don't care how old they are, but they have my fullest respect. They are amazing people with amazing minds.

You have never done anything to gain my respect, but you just take it for granted that you get it for free. In case you haven't heard this before, respect is not given, it is earnt. If you decide to behave civil towards me and change your attitude, then I will perhaps get to respect you, and mutually, I will lighten up towards you, and not engage in this shit. I will also not be arrogant towards you etc. I always give people a chance. Do you? I have requested peace with you long ago, but you reject it. You indulge in this. Go on admit it, this truly fulfils you. Otherwise, you wouldn't be here posting about all this. This is not about personal criticism, but an attempt of diplomatic resolve.

My request for a peaceful coexistence actually still stands as it has over a year ago, and I apologize for any emotional, personal or ego damage I may have caused you and your "allies" in this flame war. I do not feel like I need any of this, and I hope this can be the end of it. If not, then you know who it is up to. Me, I'm happy to settle and forget about this shit, and move on in my own life. I have a job to do here, and the involvement in these discussions is starting to get emotional, which affects my job. As such, I have to choose to discontinue this type of conversation, one way or another. If we can come to terms in the process, then all the better.

Sincerest Regards and Apologies,
S
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Quote from ElectricSavant:

If you have a change of heart about your arrogant stance

Michael B.
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Is this all that really bothers you about his posts? All fo this for that? That is trully sad.
 
Actually

The harm it does to the readers and the PM's that I have received confirms that others are offended.

Yes, it is sad that a few posters breed the sort of contempt in a community that spreads like an infection. I for one do not want to be a party to it. Simply using ignore does not solve the problem for the community that I am a guest of. But, again this is the modertors call. But they rely upon the members many times to alert them to a concern for them to evaluate.

Many folks do not contribute here, as they are intimidated. I am sure that if the readership and contributions increase that the advertising revenue will increase and the community will grow and prosper. Perhaps the benefits of being a member here will be realized by many more.

I for one am thankful for this community which is the best on the internet for traders. I have received a free subscription to S & C mag, a free t-shirt and more importantly, many hours of enjoyment and education.

Michael B.


Quote from DblArrow:

Is this all that really bothers you about his posts? All fo this for that? That is trully sad.
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I don't know about the rest of you, but this thread is getting a little stale. I mean, Wavetrader hasn't come on here and cussed anybody out and talked about how stupid we are and how great a trader he is, in several hours. Wave, please come back with your bag of garbage. I need a fix.:D :D
 
Quote from ElectricSavant:

Actually



I for one am thankful for this community which is the best on the internet for traders. I have received a free subscription to S & C mag, a free t-shirt and more importantly, many hours of enjoyment and education.

Michael B.
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Damn, I got no freebies !
 
Quote from Cutten:

The biggest individual trader in the German Bund futures market uses small stops and small profit targets - about 3-5 ticks. Clearly small stops do not prohibit very high profitability. Personally I've used small stops in intraday trading for my entire trading career, and it doesn't seem to have stopped me from making good profits. In fact, the times I've used much wider stops have generally been when I have suffered my worst losses.

You can trade profitably with small stops as long as you enter at places where your trade expectation is positive. A small stop means you are more likely to be stopped out by market noise, but equally it means you lose less when you do get stopped out. As long as the reduced loss has a greater impact than the reduced win rate, then the smaller stop makes sense. You are assuming that a small stop must lie within the range of normal market noise - this is an incorrect assumption, as sometimes you can place a small stop that lies outside the range of normal market noise. Obviously there is a limit - 1 tick is too small. But there are places where even a mere 3 or 4 ticks is far enough away that noise alone is unlikely to stop you out. In such cases, you still have enough time for your edge to come into play. Furthermore, using a 10 tick stop would stop you going for small winners of the magnitude of 3-6 ticks, unless you had a very high win rate. Someone using a smaller stop can take these trades, whereas you can't. This means they will make more money than you, other things being equal.
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Cutten - Excellent post! What a brilliant couple of paragraphs to sum up all that counts about it. This is how I think.

FWIW, depending on entry I use 4-6T on ES, 3-5T on BUND, 6-8T on DAX, 6-8T on ER2. Although there's some places where I'll play the DAX or ER2 with smaller stops, like at extremes, I may use as little as 3-4T.

Not because that's what feels best to me, but because that's what my tests have yielded as the ideal parameters. I back-test everything by hand, typically 1-2 hours every day for all approaches and markets. All of these parameters produce considerably less satisfactory results if modified in either direction, i.e. wider or tighter. There is very little if any modification tolerance, just one tick can make all the difference, in the long run.

Regarding places where "noise alone is unlikely to stop you out"; There are plenty such places, such as solid S/R levels, like you can see them in a pre-breakout base, and other places where price is forming a "flat line" and you just know if price goes just a tick in that direction, the power of your setup is invalidated, and you might as well exit. Those are the places where you can use as little as 2-3T stops, and do just fine if you're right. If your stops are tiny, you don't need much of a target to get a decent R:R. :cool:

P.S: Philly Fed wasn't exactly spectacular today...
 
Cutten,

Do you find that plus/minus 3-tick band around the exact tick of support or resistance whether it is a flat line or not is better. When the price enters that zone it is wise to watch how it trades closely, and its just not to set up limit orders...right?

I am talking abot the ES with the 3 tick band "non surgical" technique...

Michael B.


Quote from Cutten:

The biggest individual trader in the German Bund futures market uses small stops and small profit targets - about 3-5 ticks. Clearly small stops do not prohibit very high profitability. Personally I've used small stops in intraday trading for my entire trading career, and it doesn't seem to have stopped me from making good profits. In fact, the times I've used much wider stops have generally been when I have suffered my worst losses.

You can trade profitably with small stops as long as you enter at places where your trade expectation is positive. A small stop means you are more likely to be stopped out by market noise, but equally it means you lose less when you do get stopped out. As long as the reduced loss has a greater impact than the reduced win rate, then the smaller stop makes sense. You are assuming that a small stop must lie within the range of normal market noise - this is an incorrect assumption, as sometimes you can place a small stop that lies outside the range of normal market noise. Obviously there is a limit - 1 tick is too small. But there are places where even a mere 3 or 4 ticks is far enough away that noise alone is unlikely to stop you out. In such cases, you still have enough time for your edge to come into play. Furthermore, using a 10 tick stop would stop you going for small winners of the magnitude of 3-6 ticks, unless you had a very high win rate. Someone using a smaller stop can take these trades, whereas you can't. This means they will make more money than you, other things being equal.
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Cutten:
I am interested in these comments as follows:

"sometimes you can place a small stop that lies outside the range of normal market noise. Obviously there is a limit - 1 tick is too small. But there are places where even a mere 3 or 4 ticks is far enough away that noise alone is unlikely to stop you out. In such cases, you still have enough time for your edge to come into play. Furthermore, using a 10 tick stop would stop you going for small winners of the magnitude of 3-6 ticks, unless you had a very high win rate. Someone using a smaller stop can take these trades, whereas you can't. This means they will make more money than you, other things being equal."

I have gone through quite a few charts (ES) market, and find that support and resistance are often violated on an intraday basis. This happens when professional money decides to take price above/below those points to see if there is supply. So that means that you are thinking of other places where small size stops can be placed. A single example would be appreciated.

Also the idea of going for a small winners is exactly the kind of thing that will eventually cause a trader to lose. Speaking in relative terms, I look at my overhead and have an idea of the smallest profit I can go for, anything less does not pay me enough to overcome not only expenses but the opportunity cost associated with trading as well. This works in reverse as well. Once cannot take certain trades unless they are capitalized properly to survive risk exposure (the chance of surviving consecutive losses). As a result, I would not be a scalper in this environment. When I say that, what I mean is that given my skills, my capitalization and my tolerance for risk and requirement for profit over time, I believe the risk is too great. By the way, there are plenty of times when I stop myself out at or near the 6 ticks that you speak of. However I have noticed a lot of times when I have stopped myself out, then seen the market take off without me. I hear comments about re-entry, but lets be honest about this. There are times when you are either on board or not and after that you may see a good re-entry point except in retrospect. Thank you, Lefty

P.S. Today's YM chart (5 min bars) is an excellent example of how a 6 tick stop would have got hit, where a larger stop would have kept you in the game. On my charts (Esignal) the 9:20 EST bar, price dips below the pivot by exactly 7 ticks, then moves up from 10565 up to 10595. This is the kind of trade I have taken many times, leaning against the pivot, and I have seen this often.
 
Quote from Dado Wallener:

baron has booted others for soliciting, it is a mystery why scientist/bryce is allowed to keep doing it. unless there is some kind of quid pro quo going on that only they know about...
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Let's stick to the facts and not get carried away.

There are certainly scum bag vendors that use ET as a means of getting customers BUT Scientist has never even come close to acting like one in my experiences with his posts.

:)
 
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