Tick Chart vs Minute Chart

Quote from traderharley:

Thank you so much for all of you guys posted here, I learned a lot from you, and I will continue testing and find a better way to trade. Thanks again for your generosity to share your knowledge.
More...

Glad we could help.

Nice to see a thread progress along so civilized.
 
Quote from ProfLogic:

I use sequentially progressing chart increments to replicate time increments; Fast Scalp, Scalp, Fast Intraday, Intraday, Fast Swing, Swing, Fast Position and Position. (7, 49, 343, 2401, 16807, 117649, 823543 . . . etc) These are increments I apply to all futures, commodities, stocks, etf's and option charts. They never vary.

There are more than 8 but these are where my incrementation charting starts. They sequentially progress. The increments are based solely on the liquidity of the object being traded.

Example: A 49 CVB chart (Constant Volume Bar Chart) for the Euro FX would be a Fast Scalping chart increment but a 49 CVB chart would be a Swing chart for Feeder Cattle.

Candlesticks are an indicator that must be read (interpreted) to be applied correctly. When they are applied to price bars that are equally weighted, they can be read with consistency. When they are applied to price bars that are not equally weighted it skews the value of the bar making reading those bars less efficient and less consistent. I didn't say people couldn't make money using time charts and candlesticks, I said they could improve on their consistency by using volume bars and candlesticks. Just because "most traders use time bars", doesn't make them better. Traders trade, they don't have a clue what will improve their profitability because they don't have the time nor the desire to do the research to see or test what alternatives are out there that would improve their edge. In the old days most people took horses to town because they thought the horseless carriage was stupid that doesn't make using the horse better than "the car".

It stands to reason as well that if the bars one is using to read price action are consistent and equally weighted based on price volume then applying a simple momentum indicator to help one see the oscillation tops and bottoms in that price movement could be a great benefit is showing price direction and strength. I use the indicator simply to assist me in seeing those incremental and sequential tops and bottoms as they are created in real time.

You make price oscillations sound dirty. Interesting since everything on earth, at some level, oscillates and having the ability to accurately read those oscillations is an edge I capitalize on. It isn't how every one trades and hopefully never will be. I appreciate the fact that many many people make their trade decisions off random and chaotic data. Some of those individuals make a good living doing so but most don't. The reason is that it is far harder to make consistently good decisions from inconsistent data than it is to make consistently good decisions from consistent data.

You say I "need" volume bars to trade. Well, I developed them because I knew what they would do to improve my trading environment. They did and they have. I don't expect everyone to use them because there aren't many people who have the where-with-all to test them up against what they are using now. It is much simpler to summarily dismiss them. Such is human nature.

There are many traders that have tested them on a variety of systems and methods with great results. They don't have to use them exactly how I use then to see their benefit.
More...

I thought I remembered that you used sequentially progressing charts. I had also thought that they were multiples of seven. Interesting you picked out the number 7. I assume you have backtested this or it is your favorite number as it is mine. :cool:

I can see why you would use the smaller increments for instruments such as feeder cattle, ect. and the bigger ones for more liquid instruments.

Long ago I did try trading with CVB's but I had been using tick charts so it wasn't long before I went back to them as I was used to them. Eventually I went back to time bars as I can trade other things that I read in the price action better.

As an experiment today I ran a CVB chart along with my trade entry chart that was similar to each other (as close as I could get) . Of course when volume was higher the CVB chart would move faster with more noise and when volume was slower it would slow down even more than my time chart which of course threw off my reading of the chart. But that is just because of the way I trade.

Myself, I can read momentum in standard candlestick charts plus see other things that I can not see with CVB's since I am trading more than just momentum moves.

I had no intention of trying to make oscillations sound "dirty" as you say. I used to trade oscillations when I traded nasdaq stocks quite a long "time" ago. I was trying to say that you trade oscillations and for you using CVB's are the best way to go.

I like your horse and buggy story. It reminds me of my grandmother who would not use a microwave. Or my mother who refuses to use a computer (if you can believe that).

I still don't get why you think CVB"s are "consistent data". Sure, you can have the bars each with their own volume constant but the flow of the bars will change with the amount of data coming in. Of course this happens with tick charts, range bars, ect also.

I didn't realize that you developed CVB"s. Wow! Good job prof! Congratulations on your work.
 
In for example NT, you can choose session template, and instead of choosing use instrument, choose default 24/7. This way the chart does not stop displaying at close of market.

Quote from ProfLogic:

I'm working on a solution to improve the analysis of swing and position charts using volume bars too. Currently the problem is that all software forces the creation of a new bar at midnight or at market close artificially stopping the natural flow of the bars.
More...
 
What sort of bars do the big commercial traders use.

Do they use tic, vol, range or do they stay with time bars.

What size bars do they use.

Does anyone here know these answers

thank you
 
Quote from oraclewizard77:

In for example NT, you can choose session template, and instead of choosing use instrument, choose default 24/7. This way the chart does not stop displaying at close of market.
More...

Thanks, one of my programmers tested NT 6 & 7 and we found other problems with both of them that have kept us away from them too. I do like NT though. I still believe MultiCharts is the best out there even though the principles of the company aren't very happy with me right now.
 
Quote from FortuneTeller:

As an experiment today I ran a CVB chart along with my trade entry chart that was similar to each other (as close as I could get) . Of course when volume was higher the CVB chart would move faster with more noise and when volume was slower it would slow down even more than my time chart which of course threw off my reading of the chart. But that is just because of the way I trade.
More...

Exactly.

If you are intraday trading there is more of an adjustment for you as a trader because if you try to make a chart to match a time chart it won't for the exact reasons you state. In times of low volitility, it will be too slow and in times of high volitility, it will be too fast and noisy. You have to create a chart (like Goldilocks) that is just right. That takes some tweaking. I chose increments of 7 (based on prime numbers and it's ability to stack) but you could choose any increment you want. Some guys like 3 others like 11.

When I traded time charts and switched to volume I slowed down the chart process just a bit and improved my overall profitability. I know people that still successsfully trade the faster charts but I'm getting too set in my ways now and prefer taking less trades each day.

Great success to you.
 
Quote from sosueme:

What sort of bars do the big commercial traders use.
Do they use tic, vol, range or do they stay with time bars.
What size bars do they use.
Does anyone here know these answers
thank you
More...

Large commercial traders use primarily time and tick charts. A few use volume bars.
They use a variety of bar sizes based on their focus; short term medium term or long term positions.

Large commercial traders are just like us retail traders in a lot of ways. I will say that the retail traders and investors are usually more open to new ideas than the commercial guys are but that is changing too.
 
Quote from ProfLogic:

Exactly.


When I traded time charts and switched to volume I slowed down the chart process just a bit and improved my overall profitability. I know people that still successsfully trade the faster charts but I'm getting too set in my ways now and prefer taking less trades each day.

Great success to you.
More...

I don't get how you can be consistent with volume charts. Why - because volume in any market changes quite significantly over time. So do you compensate for this by continously making adjustments? If you do then you are curve fitting to fit recent data and that makes it a poor system well at least in my books. For example take Dollar Index, Sugar, YM, - these markets not so long ago had low liquidity but now is much better. If trading these markets and your system has not been adjusted for the growth in voulme you will get false signals all over the place and the reverse is true ie. in an instrument with declining volume.

The system I employ is useable on data from 100 years ago and also today data without need for curve fitting or making any adjustment.
 
Quote from Shagi:

I don't get how you can be consistent with volume charts. Why - because volume in any market changes quite significantly over time. So do you compensate for this by continously making adjustments? If you do then you are curve fitting to fit recent data and that makes it a poor system well at least in my books. For example take Dollar Index, Sugar, YM, - these markets not so long ago had low liquidity but now is much better. If trading these markets and your system has not been adjusted for the growth in voulme you will get false signals all over the place and the reverse is true ie. in an instrument with declining volume.

The system I employ is useable on data from 100 years ago and also today data without need for curve fitting or making any adjustment.
More...


What system do you use Shagi
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top