Throwing in the towel

Why do people never talk about day trading $$$ in terms of %?

I never understood how a profitable trader could complain about the $$$ he's making in absolute terms. If you're profitable, and want more $$$, then why not increase your capital? Isn't that the exciting part about trading? It's scalable (to an extent)?
 
Bro...GOOD LUCK with your new job. The market WILL get better it just might take a few years.

I am also not making the money I expected to make. I find itvery frustrating because while the market sucks so is the job market. Regardless of whether I keep trading or not I have to find a second job to supplement my income. I was planning on buying a house by next year but that does not seem likely right now.

I personally would love to trade the opening and work during the day. At least until the market picks up.

I remember when I read "Reminiscence of stock operator." In the book the market got really shitty for years and nobody could make money. Its probably a lot worse now as there is more competition and the market was SO OVERVALUED.

But its all about taking care of your family and surviving. One great thing about trading is you can always come back.

BUT IF THAT JOB IS SITTING THERE WAITING FOR YOU AND ITS MORE MONEY THAN YOU EXPECT TO MAKE TRADING....YOU WOULD BE STUPID NOT TO TAKE IT.

Good Luck Bro.
 
Quote from proptr8r:

I've been trading as a career for the last eight years. I've done well for myself and have had an absolutely amazing time learning and implementing various strategies. However, during the last year, trading has become way too inconsistent of a way to make money, at least for me. I thought I would be able to weather the storm, but this is more like a never ending hurracaine. I've actually managed to stay profitable, but making $40k a year isn't cutting it. Maybe I'll be back during more favorable conditions, but (I never thought or hoped I'd be saying this), it's time to throw in the towel and look for greener pastuers.

Good luck to all the remaining traders out there!
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40K is nothing .... Its less than nothing if this is prior to expenses.
You are wise to take the full time gig at this point. Someone else in another thread said that they were not profitable or marginally profitable for two years: this is extreme. A year without profits should be a clue that you need to change your approach. ... Certainly at the end of another six month period - or at the extreme, the second year - its time to examine other alternatives.....

This is a tough business and typically your income does not constiture an even profit stream - provided that you are making profits. However, I dont see this business as different from any other: all businesses have ups and downs. The key is that during the good times you put aside operating reserves so that you can operate during a downturn or buy new equipment, expand etc.
 
Does anyone know what's causing the change in the market for the last year? Is it just because we're in a normal flat cycle? Is it because there are too many daytraders all following the same methods? Could there be too much programmed trading going on that takes advantage of any opportunities to predict the markets?
 
Quote from almostatrader:

Does anyone know what's causing the change in the market for the last year? Is it just because we're in a normal flat cycle? Is it because there are too many daytraders all following the same methods? Could there be too much programmed trading going on that takes advantage of any opportunities to predict the markets?
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It's a lazy market. No force, no momentum, no conviction. No real force. No direct meaning to the moves. In my opinion, that's why it is difficult to make real $$$.
 
Quote from almostatrader:

Does anyone know what's causing the change in the market for the last year? Is it just because we're in a normal flat cycle? Is it because there are too many daytraders all following the same methods? Could there be too much programmed trading going on that takes advantage of any opportunities to predict the markets?
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On one hand, the market is still stupidly overvalued... and the probability of earnings exploding to validate prices is dim. On the other hand, the Gubmint and the Talking Heads are blowin' smoke up the sheeples' skirt with optimistic BS so they don't understand the reality of the mess they've propagated and tank the market to where it belongs.

Have a nice day. :cool:
 
Quote from CalTrader:



40K is nothing .... Its less than nothing if this is prior to expenses.
You are wise to take the full time gig at this point. Someone else in another thread said that they were not profitable or marginally profitable for two years: this is extreme. A year without profits should be a clue that you need to change your approach. ... Certainly at the end of another six month period - or at the extreme, the second year - its time to examine other alternatives.....

This is a tough business and typically your income does not constiture an even profit stream - provided that you are making profits. However, I dont see this business as different from any other: all businesses have ups and downs. The key is that during the good times you put aside operating reserves so that you can operate during a downturn or buy new equipment, expand etc.
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Yep! You all gotta seriously look into what's wrong and change or even quit. Cutting losses in trading and in life choices are both good philosophy to live by. I hear a lot of people on this board saying that they will giveit 5 years or X years etc. That's good determination and all.

But you gotta face the music too. It's not bad if you quit then come back. Unless you are making at LEAST your normal pay salary before and perhaps even more because the unpredictable cash flow of the trading business, then the opportunity cost for you is pretty darn high.

Now, the scary thing is that we might be a cyclical bear market like the 1970s where trading were "crappy" for years and years on end. In fact, for 16yrs. Do you have the time to bang your head for 16yrs? haha. Though I've never traded during the 70s, too young, I heard from older institutional traders saying people would busted into frustration at their trading desk. And fund managers earning negative or anemic returns year after year. And these are the people who have salaried job so no stress to pay the bills every month, but they still would crack under such crappy trading conditions.

Just a does of reality for those bright eye bushy tailed with stars in your eyes... You gotta really really know what you are doing now... Mistakes are really expensive nowadays...

Well, obviously, there's always a way to make money. the trick is to find out how.. ;)

good luck trading

trader99
 
Quote from trader99:




Now, the scary thing is that we might be a cyclical bear market like the 1970s where trading were "crappy" for years and years on end. In fact, for 16yrs. Do you have the time to bang your head for 16yrs? haha. Though I've never traded during the 70s, too young, I heard from older institutional traders saying people would busted into frustration at their trading desk. And fund managers earning negative or anemic returns year after year. And these are the people who have salaried job so no stress to pay the bills every month, but they still would crack under such crappy trading conditions.


Well, obviously, there's always a way to make money. the trick is to find out how.. ;)

good luck trading

trader99
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If you read the original Market Wizards book, a lot of them made their fortunes during those crappy stock market years. They made it in grains, currencies, bonds, gold, whatever. There are always markets that are hot or are crashing, it's just a matter of finding them. We tend to get narrowly focused on the stock market because of the daytrading industry, bubblevision and the various financial websites and media, which all focus almost exclusively on it. You can make money trading stocks or index futures now, but I think you have to be very selective to do it. You can't be just pounding out trades all day long, every day.
 
Quote from trader99:



Now, the scary thing is that we might be a cyclical bear market like the 1970s where trading were "crappy" for years and years on end. In fact, for 16yrs. ....
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I started out in the 70's: In a sense I started in the business during its worst time - although towards the end of the cycle.

On thing though: there were lots of traders making money. Yes, many more had a rough time but it was not like everyone was going broke. People moaned about how "tough" it was but they were still raking in money: it just wasn't being thrown at them and they had to work for it ....

Thats pretty much where we are today. Conditions are tougher and mistakes are more harshly punished .. but ... things are still good if you stick to the priciples: the last year or so we are just working a bit harder for those dollars ....
 
Trading Size - but then again, if you take HUGE risk in this market and in milliseconds it goes against you, it could ruin your whole month.

Or just be happy with small takedowns for a while.

Me I am trying to get used to just one take of 5 to 10 cents in the morning and maybe an opportunity in the afternoon.

But BP is the key in this market.

And I hope the Oversoldness of the markets ends, that will help us all.
 
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