Thoughts on where to initiate a trade...

Kp,

Can I ask you, why are you using the 5 sec chart? If you can give me a great answer, then I will leave you a lone about the 5 sec.. Anyways, regarding your first chart... There's nothing wrong with taking the opposite side of the trade.. But from my experience, you will be stressed out from all of the small losses and breakevens.. Basically, what I'm trying to say is it's a waste of time.. Unless you have a big account..

Where is your 5 min chart? Are those s&r lines base on the 5 sec chart?? If so why? Are you looking at the bigger picture?... 80% win rate is hard.. Only the elite are able to achieve those results.. You will need more screen time...

I would love to answer! This all comes back to behavior. If there truly is something to be said about how traders behave around a level, then in addition to seeing this in real time with the right tick moving up and down, it should be somehow recorded on a chart. If I am to trade with a set of rules, I gotta outline quite well what I'm looking for to see that makes me place a trade. If I only have a 1 minute chart to go on, it makes it very difficult to see what is actually happening at a level that I am already watching.

Yes these important levels should only be taken from a daily/hourly/5 min chart, but when we are there, its time to pay attention. I'm not saying that I am looking for a 5 sec chart to provide me with a resistance or support level or even trend lines, and hence why in my example I use that resistance line as something that would have already been on my chart, and given that price stalls at this level, it does show me that there is something to this resistance. (this was just an example though... I'm not even sure if that resistance line is legit from a higher time frame chart).

Its kind of like this. When you see a bomb blast go off, all you really see is a big fire ball, lots of smoke, and crap everywhere once the dust settles. A person close enough to this is surely dead... but what killed him? A high speed camera would see the initial ignition, would see the shock wave, would see the fire spread out, and would see the stuff starting to fly everywhere. From what I read, its actually the shock wave that does the most damage since the brain is compressed within the skull and bounces back and a brain simply cannot take this. So one might conclude that the fire killed the person, or some major cut to an artery from shrapnel, but if you were able to see a shock wave from this high speed footage, and see the person pass out from this even before any object hits him, then this gives you more information.

In terms of taking the opposite side of a trade, I actually think that this gives me a pretty good risk:reward. If I'm expecting price to reverse here, lets say at a previous day high, then if I take a short right at that level, I can either already be in a short when price fizzles, or if it breaks through, a tight stop will take me out. Hopefully the stop is wide enough that a couple of ticks of penetration doesn't take me out, but if price should happen to go above by at least 2 points, this is usually a good indication that there are enough buyers to take it even higher. Now the idea isn't blindly to short at an overnight level, but to see if I can spot hesitation in the 5 sec chart which makes me a place a trade close enough to this level so that a 2-3 point stop is all that is needed to tell me that this level is no longer providing resistance.

If I wait for price to BO above the level, I have always been caught in taking a long at the worst place. If I wait to see the reversal and see price actually going down, I get into the short much too late, and once again, I get in at the worst place, just before price goes back up to test resistance perhaps one more time. So in my example in the first post, I'm simply outlining where a good place to take both a long and short are.

So I'm just trying to look at this from the point of view of accepting that I don't know what will happen next, but if I get in at the very best place, my trade either works instantly, or fails instantly.
 
Learn to take small losses

It may work for longer term positions with high risk:reward ratios, but based on my own experiences as an intraday stock trader, I have to somewhat disagree with this. You cant have your cake and eat it too. As much as I like the idea of risking 1/2 a point to make 2 points, it's not that simple. The market has a way of shaking out people who tighten up against it. Realistically I do much better risking 1 point to make 1.5. Now if I notice volatility quieting down I may cut that 1 risk point in 1/2. This is where some discretion comes into play
 
NQ.png
Trader Vic 2B reversal.

Price makes a higher high pulls back, resumes trend and makes a new higher high stalls then closes below (white line) the low of the HH.

Also in chart resistance level (red line) contained two attempts at a new HH. This is drawn using the rules of what is called Trending Candle Body Reversal.
 
... I'm just assuming this thing is going to bounce 40 +/- a point or so...

Then ...

Bounced 41.25 and now back to 50+, this is almost becoming predictable ;)

Almost seems like you're trying to make things look purposefully misleading. I don't try to mislead anyone.

Yes.. I have seen this, but for me personally, I have a few problems with it that make it not all that ideal for trading in real time. First, the 50% level is wrong, price does actually penetrate the 50% level as per my chart here.

I eyeballed the half way point, which is precise as one needs to be, imo. Whether it penetrates any level or not is not the issue - what is pertinent is does demand support price there or does demand withdraw? Similarly, at resistance, does demand power price through or does it withdraw?

But to follow the logic of calling the next bar a lower high just because it opens lower doesn't make much sense to me. Sure it opened lower, but since this is just the opening of the bar, what does it matter? By the time the bar closes, often the opportunity to enter is gone.

Look at what I call my lower high on this chart. It too opens lower than the previous bar... so sure this is a lower high as this bar opens, but the high of this bar goes above the previous bar, and it also closes higher than it opens. So I'm not quite sure what the significance of any of this is. Is the idea to take a short just because the bar opens lower than the high of the previous bar?

The fact that the high of that particular bar was the open is absolutely 100% irrelevant. The bar is irrelevant. What is relevant is the lower high failure. Which came first, the high of the bar before, or the high of the second bar? Which is higher? Which is lower? When did price make a lower low? Price needs to be read from left to right.
 
I would first like to preface this reply 40D with the understanding that I really am just after the truth... the truth of what can be seen, what can be accomplished. I think its absolutely proper to challenge and hope you don't mind me doing so when I see something that for me doesn't add up. I'm certainly not trolling, just trying to figure out the truth.

Almost seems like you're trying to make things look purposefully misleading. I don't try to mislead anyone.

Ok, yes, you do have this in the previous post. If I want to be a stickler, which sometimes I want to be, the time stamp on your post is 15:06, and this bounce happened at 15:04. This really is far too close to call given that it takes time to post, and you perhaps were even focusing on a trade. So yes, your post about your assumption is just after it happened, but this is too close to call, so I would have to be very careful with my conclusion and therefore my earlier assumption is a bit hasty.

NQH15  1 Min   #2 2015-02-28  22_45_46.509.png


Here is the thing though... when you end with "if it breaks then...", you have covered all of your bases. You're saying you assume one thing, but if it doesn't happen, then this other thing will happen. Since price can only go up or down (or sideways as Db likes to point out! :p), it simply isn't that profound of a comment to make. Of course a nimble trader can take the reversal, expecting a bounce, and if it doesn't go, just get out quickly. But I hope that you can understand that in terms of pure logic, a prediction like this has very little weight because most bases are covered with your statement.

While I'm at it, I would like to express my frustration with the other type of prediction that Db makes along the lines of "if we can get past 4400, then the next stop is 4450, but it doesn't have to be today". Its like saying "if I live to 60 years old, then I'm heading to 61." Saying that if price makes it to a certain point already means its going up, so you've at least got the direction right, and then saying that if it makes it past that point, then your direction is further confirmed, so statistically, so say its going to go higher is almost a given.

Its just as frustrating as religion to be honest. I know you're religious, and I in no way want to insult your beliefs, but when a Christian says that whatever happens is "God's will", then there can be no issue whatsoever with anything that happens. When a person dies of a horrible disease, the answer is that God wanted this person up in heaven with him, and if this person lives, its a miracle! Every single answer is designed to align with "God's will", and this is somehow used to prove his existence because no matter what the outcome, his existence is ensured.

Moving on though. Of course the high of the bar before came first.... but as price is coming up to form what will in fact be a lower high, we don't know where it will stop.

Follow these next few charts please. (this has nothing to do with your example... I just found a random chunk of price action)

NQH15  1 Min   #2 2015-02-28  23_06_12.385.png


NQH15  1 Min   #2 2015-02-28  23_07_24.399.png


NQH15  1 Min   #2 2015-02-28  23_08_04.779.png


So I fully understand that price is continuous, but to call something a lower high in real time is tricky.

In your chart, you're only able to say that the subsequent hourly bar is a lower high once that bar has fully formed and price is now forming the next bar because as shown in my example above, price can still shoot up any time to form a higher high.

Now don't get me wrong... I am absolutely a believer in only focusing on what price is doing at these important extreme levels, be they previous day highs or lows, overnight highs of lows, and highs or low put in intraday that stand out on a 5 min chart.

Its just that to me, the way the lines are drawn in your example, the line drawn across the lower high at roughly 4463 which magically happens to also be the high that was hit the next day after the open is just a coincidence. I simply see no reason to draw a line across the high of that hourly bar. The previous bar, yes, as this forms the high of the day, but not the subsequent bar with a high of 4463.
 

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...I really am just after the truth... the truth of what can be seen, what can be accomplished. I think its absolutely proper to challenge and hope you don't mind me doing so when I see something that for me doesn't add up. I'm certainly not trolling, just trying to figure out the truth.

You are trolling, you just don't realize yet, and apparently neither do quite a few otherwise apparently intelligent individuals. It is only a matter of time before your transformation is complete. You could still stop it, but that would require you to do the work that everyone who has ever succeeded in this field has done.

Here what you have internalized, and this is why you will continue to fail and why you will drag down others:

Major Premise: Others says to it like this.
Minor Premise: I can't (won't!) do it like this.
Conclusion: Therefore others can't do it like this.
Action: I'm going to show everyone that this can't be done.

There is that which can be seen by looking, and that which is seen by understanding. You look, but you do not understand, and therefore you do not fully see.

Out of nowhere.JPG


Please, don't quote me anymore and please don't comment on me anymore. You can do enough damage to others without having to drag me through your dirt.
 
So what can I do something about? I can plot an extreme level, and I can watch and price approaches this extreme level, and I either figure out a way to take a trade thinking that it will either bounce off, or penetrate. But once I say look at the failure, look at the rejection, the trade is gone, unless I wanna get in 5 points lower and accept a big stop.

You can learn to use a smaller bar interval AFTER GETTING A VALID SIGNAL IN A LONGER BAR INTERVAL, to enter in such a way that a "big" stop isn't necessary. Often additional confirmation (getting in 5 points lower, for example) means price has developed intertia and will not stop until it meets with a strong force the other direction. So big stops are unnecessary when you use your smaller bar interval for entries.

If you're trading against a prevailing trend, then confirmation is where you should be entering in the direction of the trend, because the counter-trend scalp is over. If you're looking to pick tops and bottoms so you can catch a counter-trend scalp or a possible reversal (with no reversal signal yet in sight), then you're best off simply placing your limit order at a key level (channel line or other longer term S/R with-trend target level) to buy or sell against the trend.

In a nutshell:

With-trend - buy or sell when you feel like you're going to miss what feels like a reversal of the trend. That's the ultimate "fade the trapped traders" with-trend entry.

Counter-trend - place an anticipatory limit order at a key S/R level to fade the trend or watch for a 1-2-3 reversal setup in a small bar interval for the counter-trend scalp.

Wide range - Fade the range extremes with very small stops

Narrow range - buy or sell in the direction of the previous strong move, preferable at the narrow range extreme opposite the previous strong move with a very small stop.
 
I certainly don't have a dog in this hunt


But..., KP brings up good points

To take this chart... and treat the B/O up as a fore gone conclusion - is incorrect



upload_2015-3-1_11-52-52.png






Many set ups on this chart - several I did not mark as it would be too cluttered

Many ways to read it - many potential outcomes for price to travel

Why seeing the bigger TF(s) (overall landscape)..., and factoring it in - is so vital



Up until price actually B/O (the last bar) - I could make a case for several different outcomes (based on what I'm presented here)

Factor in the higher TF(s) - may present a different story - but who could say here - as it not present

upload_2015-3-1_11-55-11.png



KP is asking good questions - he should not be dismissed so easily



Aside

Apologies for bad drawings - but an artist I'm not


jmo

RN
 
You can learn to use a smaller bar interval AFTER GETTING A VALID SIGNAL IN A LONGER BAR INTERVAL, to enter in such a way that a "big" stop isn't necessary. Often additional confirmation (getting in 5 points lower, for example) means price has developed intertia and will not stop until it meets with a strong force the other direction. So big stops are unnecessary when you use your smaller bar interval for entries.

If you're trading against a prevailing trend, then confirmation is where you should be entering in the direction of the trend, because the counter-trend scalp is over. If you're looking to pick tops and bottoms so you can catch a counter-trend scalp or a possible reversal (with no reversal signal yet in sight), then you're best off simply placing your limit order at a key level (channel line or other longer term S/R with-trend target level) to buy or sell against the trend.

In a nutshell:

With-trend - buy or sell when you feel like you're going to miss what feels like a reversal of the trend. That's the ultimate "fade the trapped traders" with-trend entry.

Counter-trend - place an anticipatory limit order at a key S/R level to fade the trend or watch for a 1-2-3 reversal setup in a small bar interval for the counter-trend scalp.

Wide range - Fade the range extremes with very small stops

Narrow range - buy or sell in the direction of the previous strong move, preferable at the narrow range extreme opposite the previous strong move with a very small stop.

I agree with everything you said, but why should a rookie like kp start to counter trend? It's harder enough for a rookie to be profitable with a trend..
 
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