this thread has the potential to change your life

[MRWSM]

No free will so no punishment for crimes? I guess I can live with that as long as the same applies to my no free will when I use my pre-determined right to defend myself and blow the perp away.

 

[Gordon Gekko]

Quote from MRWSM:

No free will so no punishment for crimes? I guess I can live with that as long as the same applies to my no free will when I use my pre-determined right to defend myself and blow the perp away.

just to be clear, self defense and punishment are not always the same thing, obviously.

if someone broke into your house, i would absolutely say defend yourself, family, and property pretty much any way you have to. if he happens to get killed in the process that's his problem.

HOWEVER, if he were arrested by the police and such, having him sit in prison for 10 years just to give him his punishment and make him suffer is just wrong and unnecessary, imo.

 

[TGregg]

So if I broke into your house, stole all your stuff, raped your 12 year old daughter and 9 year old son and set your spouse on fire, you'd be saying "Please your Honor, no punishment for TGregg!"

?

 

[TGregg]

Quote from Gordon Gekko:

real world: we punish people in prison
how the universe is operating: if no free will, then punishment is wrong

Quote from TGregg:
But if there is no free will, then we cannot stop ourselves from punishing them.

Quote from Gordon Gekko:
i don't see it that way. you can say if we are ever going to stop the punishment stuff, it is already determined. however, discussions like this could be what actually led to things changing.

say someone beats their dog. you could say they have no free will. they were determined to be someone who beats their dog UP TO THAT TIME. now say that person is exposed to someone who teaches why punishment is incorrect. they may not be so punishing now towards their dog.

You would not see it that way, seeing as how you are hampered by a lack of free will.

How can one possibly decide that the punishment they formally thought their dog deserved is now incorrect? The owner has no free will, according to you. There is no way to make him choose one thing over another, he cannot make a decision at all - he has no free will. It's hilarious to say that there is no free will and here's what we need to do about it.