This QE really drove these oil prices

You have misinterpreted the remarks here. I myself have specifically pointed out that the appreciating U.S. dollar is one factor affecting oil prices. I have done this in at least two threads now, and maybe more. but evidently you don't bother to read my posts. Furthermore, when someone says that oil is dropping because supply is greater than demand that doesn't mean, necessarily, that that is the only factor.

Evidently you don't bother to read your own posts. Or the posts you're supporting. Quick, engage the back peddling mechanism, Scotty! Here:

Nope, prices have fallen because high production has continued in the face of falling demand. I'll mention that I do agree speculation is part of it, but today that's a small fraction.

I love it when you (Ricter) hit these guys over the head with logic, but I love it even more when you clobber them with sarcasm! But mostly I love the way they just carry on anyway as if you weren't there. Or sometimes they take a little swipe at you, as though you were a gnat. And then they just go right on down the same ridiculous path with the same crazy statements and the same absurd arguments.

Some of the more entertaining reasons for oil dropping suddenly in price are: 1. the U.S has worked out a deal with the Saudi's to teach Putin a lesson; 2. The alternative energy boys are starting to threaten the petroleum industry. Time to put solar out of business; 3. QE did it!; 4. Jay Leno has put all but one of his cars permanently on blocks.

Yeah. You "didn't mean that". Epic fail.

Another point, that you probably won't read, is that I agreed with those that maintained that QE was a factor in oil pricing.

Let me requote.

Some of the more entertaining reasons for oil dropping suddenly in price are: 1. the U.S has worked out a deal with the Saudi's to teach Putin a lesson; 2. The alternative energy boys are starting to threaten the petroleum industry. Time to put solar out of business; 3. QE did it!; 4. Jay Leno has put all but one of his cars permanently on blocks.

LOL!

Going into QE the dollar futures dropped and naturally put upward pressure on oil prices. Coming out of QE dollar futures rose, and naturally this would put downward pressure on oil prices, and commodity prices in general, I might add. You have to consider both what the dollar is doing AND what's going on with supply and demand to get the overall picture. Oil prices have fallen dramatically . We have BOTH supply out stripping demand and a rising dollar at the same time! This is NOT rocket science.

Apparently, you're not sure what it is. I've asked you to show me where demand is being outstripped by supply, but you only showed me a chart on supply. I referred to Ricter's chart that shows both supply and demand (though forecast demand for Q1 2015) and asked questions as to why that doesn't support your (yours and his) narrative. Neither one of you has responded. Wonder why?

Wildchild maintained that "we" were told that QE wouldn't affect prices. I asked him who said that, because I couldn't imagine anyone maintaining that the kind of massive QE we had coming out of the Great Recession would not affect prices. Of course QE affects prices. I never got an answer from Wild child.

Maybe he's not answering you because he's following your strategy?
 
That is a bizarre statement by Williamson. But he is not claiming QE doesn't affect prices.

Quit hiding behind semantics. We all know that a "claim that QE doesn't affect prices" means it isn't inflationary. Only an ass would think it was deflationary. Ergo, that statement qualifies.
 
Oh, and I almost forgot! Did anyone see the oil and ES spike after hours? Do you know what it coincided with? These comments by Evans:

  • *FED'S EVANS SAYS RAISING RATES WOULD BE A CATASTROPHE
  • *EVANS SAYS OIL IMPACT ON INFLATION TO REQUIRE CLOSE MONITORING
  • *EVANS SAYS WAGE GROWTH CONSISTENT WITH GOAL WOULD BE 3.5%-4%
  • *EVANS: DROP IN LONG-TERM INTEREST RATES `EXTRAORDINARY' PAST YR
  • *EVANS SAYS HOUSING HASN'T SHOWN STRENGTH HE'D LIKE TO SEE

    20150107_bwuahahahah1_0.jpg
Wait, I know. Quite suddenly, at the exact time Evans made those comments, worldwide oil supply was overtaken by a massive spike in demand. It's fundamentals driving oil prices, I tell ya!

What a joke..

Nope, prices have fallen because high production has continued in the face of falling demand. I'll mention that I do agree speculation is part of it, but today that's a small fraction.

hahaha....
 
I'm aghast. Who wrote this? Did you give us the author. In a recession you need to be concerned with spending not deficits. As long as spending is adequate to replace falling private-sector demand, than a falling deficit is likely caused by increasing revenue due to recovery. That isn't necessarily bad. But if spending is cut prematurely in order to reduce deficits, than there is a risk of tipping the economy back into recession. This would depend on where the cuts come. When Christine Romer was on the CEA she expressed an opinion that increasing the tax rate by 4% in the top bracket would not have a significant adverse affect on the recovery. Assuming she was right and that increase had been put into effect, than with spending held constant, or even increased some, a reduction in the deficit could be expected. That would be an example of a deficit reduction not necessarily incompatible with recovery.

What are you talking about Christina Romer said that a tax increase of 1% of GDP would decrease real GDP by 3% over the next 10 quarters, Romer famously stuck the knife in Obama's back, and poo pooed his agenda with her paper.



Christina Romer Knows Tax Hikes Will Kill the Recovery

A powerful analysis by President Barack Obama’s first Chair of his Council of Economic Advisers (CEA) indicates the President’s proposed tax increases would kill the economic recovery and throw nearly 1 million Americans out of work. Those are the extraordinary implications of academic research by Christina D. Romer, who chaired the CEA from January 28, 2009 – September 3, 2010. In a paper entitled: “The Macrcoeconomic Effects of Tax Changes” published by the prestigious American Economic Review in June 2010 (during her tenure at the White House), she stated: “In short, tax increases appear to have a very large, sustained, and highly significant negative impact on output.”


Although Dr. Romer’s analysis is full of equations and econometric jargon, the clarity of her conclusions are a fatal indictment of the Obama Administration’s demand for tax increases. In what may be the first time since David Stockman’s “Trojan Horse” comment regarding the Reagan tax rate cuts, a high White House Official has completely undermined her own Administration’s policy while serving. Had this happened during a Republican administration, a la Stockman’s Atlantic interview, it would have been Page One news. “Obama To America: Drop Dead.”

The AER paper, co-authored with her husband and fellow UC Berkeley Professor, David H. Romer, examines the impact of tax increases and reductions on U.S. economic growth for the period 1945 to 2007. One of the innovations in the paper is its focus on “exogenous” changes in taxes, that is changes in taxes that were meant to either increase the rate of economic growth (not simply offset a recession), such as the Kennedy, Reagan and Bush tax cuts, or to reduce the budget deficit, such as the Clinton tax increase. Excluded were “endogenous” tax changes that were purely countercyclical, such as the 1975 tax rebates, or were used to “offset another factor that would tend to move output growth away from normal”, such as the tax increases to finance the Korean war and the introduction of the payroll tax to finance Medicare.

“The behavior of output following these more exogenous changes indicates that tax increases are highly contractionary. The effects are strongly significant, highly robust, and much larger than those obtained using broader measures of tax changes.”

Wow! That’s about as strong a statement as you will ever read in a paper published in the AER.

The Romers’ baseline estimate suggests that a tax increase of 1% of GDP (about $160 billion in today’s economy) reduces real GDP by 3% over the next 10 quarters.

In addition, the Romers used a variety of statistical tests to take into account other factors that could influence economic growth at the time of the tax changes, including government spending, monetary policy, the relative price of oil, and even whether the President was a Democrat or Republican (it doesn’t matter much). A summary of the statistical work estimates that a tax increase of 1% of GDP would lead to a fall in output of 2.2% to 3.6% over the next 10 quarters.

In other words, the tax increases proposed by President Obama would have a major contractionary impact on economic growth, and by implication, job creation and employment regardless of changes in government spending, what the Fed does or what happens to the price of oil etc.

How big an impact? In his 2013 budget, President Obama proposes $103 billion in 2013 tax increases, including $83 billion of higher income taxes on those who make more than $250,000 a year, or about 0.65% of GDP. Using the Romer baseline estimate, that would reduce real GDP by 2 percentage points over the next 10 quarters. Based on the general relationship between economic growth and unemployment, such a fall in output implies a loss of more than 800,000 jobs.

The President’s budget fails to mention, far less include, the negative effects of its proposed tax increases in its economic assumptions. Instead, it assumes real GDP growth will accelerate to 3.0% next year and to 3.6% in 2014. Based on the Romers’ study, it is far more likely real GDP growth would slow to near 2% next year and remain well below 3% in 2014.

Slower growth would shrink the tax base by a cumulative $700 billion over the next 3 years. And, with tax revenues estimated at 19% of GDP, that implies tax collections would fall $130 billion below forecast over the next 3 years, and by more than $600 billion over the next 10 years. Pressure for increased spending to provide relief to individuals who lose their jobs or who no longer can get a job in the form of unemployment benefits, food stamps, Medicaid and the like would make it all the more difficult to restrain spending, further offsetting any forecasted reductions in the federal budget deficit due to the tax increases.

Such a growth recession would also create havoc with state and local government budgets, where revenues have just now recovered to their pre-recession levels. Unlike the federal government, states would not receive any additional revenues from the hike in federal taxes. But, they would suffer the full loss of revenues and increased spending due to a smaller economy.

The publication of the Romers’ research and the soon thereafter resignation of Dr. Romer from the Obama White House to return to Berkeley undermines the authenticity of President Obama’s oft repeated claims that his proposed budget would increase economic growth and produce an “economy built to last.” Given the importance of her work — only the most important research is published by the American Economic Review — it is hard to imagine Professor Romer failed to inform her boss she was publishing an analysis that said the administration’s proposed tax increases would almost certainly be “highly contractionary.”

If she failed to so advise the President, she would be guilty of unimaginable treachery and betrayal in her role as the President’s chief economist.

If she did convey her findings and the White House chose to ignore them, the implications are staggering and deserve to be the subject of Congressional hearings. In such a case, it would appear President Obama’s zeal for massive tax increases trumps all of his talk about the importance of job creation and economic growth.

The vital questions that remain are:

• Does the Obama administration fail to grasp the implications of its own analysis — that the President is proposing tax increases that would throw hundreds of thousands of people out of work?

• Or, does the President’s allegiance to his ideology and his version of fairness mean that he simply does not care about the lives and fortunes of those who would suffer as a consequence of his policies?


• Has “putting government first” become the new mantra of the president and the Democratic Party?

And will the White House press corps — or Democrats and Republicans alike — demand that the American people be given an answer?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/charles...mer-knows-tax-hikes-will-kill-the-recovery/2/
 
'... Christina Romer Knows Tax Hikes Will Kill the Recovery


The vital questions that remain are:


• "... does the President’s allegiance to his ideology and his version of fairness mean that he simply does not care about the lives and fortunes of those who would suffer as a consequence of his policies?


• Has “putting government first” become the new mantra of the president and the Democratic Party?

Yes and Yes! (Well, "putting government first" isn't just a new mantra... been there for a long time, just not as obviously as now.)

The US Constitution tried to make all of this impossible/illegal... but greed and sloth about defending the Constitution has allowed the cancer of Leftism to overrun America.

:(
 
I don't care, if the efficacy of Keynesianism is demonstrated.

You wouldn't care, would you. Propaganda is all that matters, right? There's a big difference between "opined upon" and demonstrated. The former is a blog entry, the latter what we're living through.
 
You wouldn't care, would you. Propaganda is all that matters, right? There's a big difference between "opined upon" and demonstrated. The former is a blog entry, the latter what we're living through.
Lol, no, effective policy is what matters.
 
More on the "fundamentals driving oil prices" hilarity. Interested on how you might refute this, piezoe. I won't even ask Ricter, as this is way out of his league.

From page 2 of Russell Napier's ERIC.

2. Financial players have destroyed price discovery in oil market



Chart 3: Volumes in financial futures markets is now many times physical production.

Oil prices should be set by the balance of supply and demand. But as Chart 3 shows, oil markets have instead become dominated by financial players, as pension and hedge funds decided to buy oil as a “store of value“.

Before 2000, financial market volume (red line) had equaled annual oil production (green). This worked well, providing physical players with sufficient liquidity to enable price hedging to take place. But in 2000, after the dot-com crash, central banks stopped focusing on the need to defend the value of the currency – previously their main role. Instead, they refocused on trying to maintain economic growth. And they began to use their new weapon created in the dot-com revolution, the power to print ‘electronic money’.

OIL MARKETS LOST THE POWER OF PRICE DISCOVERY

Chart 3 shows how this has played out. Unfortunately for all of us, central banks couldn’t resist the temptation to play with their new toy. They came to believe it had near-magical powers, and could control the economic cycle. After the Crisis began in 2008, they even gave it a new name “Quantitative Easing” (QE). And central banks around the world began to use it to print trillions of dollars. Unsurprisingly, of course, this had side-effects.

One was that US pension and hedge funds quickly realised that QE would also devalue the US$. They therefore rushed to invest in oil markets as a supposed ’store of value‘.
What they didn’t realise was that this created a massive imbalance of financial versus physical market demand. Producers couldn’t suddenly double their production at the touch of an electronic button. Financial sector demand simply overwhelmed physical supply:

  • Hurricane Katrina in 2005 had already shown the potential for this type of speculation to occur.
    • By the time US refineries were operating again after it, financial trading was 4x physical production.
    • By 2011, with the support from QE, financial players were trading the equivalent of 6x physical production.
Thus financial market demand came to dominate physical demand, and prices leapt skywards (blue line). The physical market’s key role, that of price discovery, was destroyed.

Many analysts (TT: and some ET pretend economists) failed to make the linkages, and instead claimed these high prices were justified by reduced supply or increasing demand. But as we know today, there has never been any physical shortage of oil since the Crisis began. Instead, what is now becoming obvious is that the collapse of the price discovery process led producers to over-invest and create an energy glut.

There are two key issues that will now determine future prices:


    • One is that gas has been increasing its market share at oil’s expense.
    • The second is Saudi Arabia’s need to ensure the 1945 US/Saudi ‘oil-for-defence agreement’ continues.
We are in for a very bumpy ride, as oil prices return to being based on their own supply/demand fundamentals.
 
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