This is why sim trading sux! (But what about prop?)

[Overnight]

...Back test with REAL historical data to prove your strategy works or face the $$ guillotine...

And there we are, at the same quandary.

Backtesting has become completely pointless now. Did the "backtesting" from 2009 to 2017 work? Really? It did? Cool!

Did the backtesting from 1929 to 1986 work? It did? Really?

Did all of those backtests apply those same rules to 2018? Did it work? Really? Prove it. I bet it did not. It is why so many people blew up this year. There has been unprecedented point movement in 2018. In my head, percentages mean nothing in derivative back testing...Only number of ticks. If I am blatantly wrong, prove it.

 

[fordewind]

Why are people starting to forget Elvis?

 

[qlai]

To me the concept of SIM trading is just a lure by brokers to get amateur traders to open a trading account knowing full well the grand majority of them will blow up their account within a few weeks/months..

That's an exaggeration. It's simply a tool, better to have than not. For liquid futures, SIM should yeild very close results. Obviously if you try to capture momentum, expect slippage.

Back test with REAL historical data to prove your strategy works or face the $$ guillotine...

Backtesting with intra-day data will yield worse trsults than forward testing on *realistic* simulator. Even EOD backtesting will be worse than forward testing, imo. You never have internet outage in backtesting, for example.

 

[wrbtrader]

And that is where the fear comes in. That is all discretionary day trading, except for the first GC trade.

Why can I not do that live? I have no coding or auto-strats. Just my own head. At the beginning of this holiday season, I am very happy about that final NQ trade. I went in a direction, it started to go against, so I took the stupid loss. And shortly after that the thing tanked many more points down.

Don't know any specific details of your trading day nor do I know the home environment you're trading within...

Yet, it does impact the mind of a discretionary trader.

Simulator trading can play tricks on the mind when you're switching from simulator to live trading in the same trading day. In fact, sometimes I suspect that traders mixing simulator trading and live trading in the same day are having problems managing their emotions and then when the pressure gets too much...they go live when a valid trade signal shows up and then the results of the live trade impacts the entire trading day (lots of emotions show up when the day concludes).

Maybe you should designate a day to simulate trade and then do not do any live trades. The same when you designate a day to live trade and then do not do any simulator trades. You may then be able to make a better comparison about of using your trading plan.

In fact, your backtest results should help guide you as you traverse from simulator to live trading. Yet, I do realize you don't put much weight into backtesting. I mean, even successful discretionary traders have backtest results and should lean on it for help in staying focus on what they should be doing including helping them to manage those emotions.

Last of all, I think simulator trading should only be used to test/learn the broker platform or used when the platform has key upgrades that you need to learn how to use in certain trading situations or when you change key aspects to your trading plan...even discretionary traders have rules in their trading...rules that can change when market conditions change.

Jumping back n forth between the two when you already know the broker platform can play too many tricks on the mind of a discretionary trader.

wrbtrader

 

[Scataphagos]

The real value to sim trading is to filter out strategies that don't work.

If during sim you catch onto something that appears to work, try it out in real time with real money... but SMALL. You'll likely learn things you didn't expect.

 

[Scataphagos]

To me the concept of SIM trading is just a lure by brokers to get amateur traders to open a trading account knowing full well the grand majority of them will blow up their account within a few weeks/months.. Back test with REAL historical data to prove your strategy works or face the $$ guillotine...

Seems rather cynical.

Even if noob traders blow up their accounts, the broker doesn't benefit much... just some commish for a short period of time. Seems hardly worth "luring" amature traders. (I suppose it's more for a broker who plays counterparty for new customers... assuming they will fail.)

 

[volpri]

You either have a workable method or you don't. If you do not know, define the metrics needed to validate your approach, validate it and then trade with real money. Personally, I have always found sim trading mostly a waste of time. Sure, it's fine for testing your software and approach but my sim account balance is not going to pay my bills.

Kinda like pilots taking training in a sim before they fly a commercial airline? A total waste of time and effort?

Kinda like Nasa training in simulators. Another total waste of time..money...effort?

Kinda of like practice in footbal simulating a real game? Total waste of energy and conditioning?

 

[tiddlywinks]

Kinda like pilots taking training in a sim before they fly a commercial airline? A total waste of time and effort?

Kinda like Nasa training in simulators. Another total waste of time..money...effort?

Kinda of like practice in footbal simulating a real game? Total waste of energy and conditioning?

Comparing sim trading to simulating or practicing things that can cause physical harm, injury or worse, to self and/or to others is ridiculous. The loss of a few pieces of paper money does not exist on that scale.

Once you know the machinations needed to execute a strategy on a platform, yes, sim trading is a waste of time, effort, and energy. Not even including the potential negative cognitive conditioning sim trading may produce.

 

[volpri]

Comparing sim trading to simulating or practicing things that can cause physical harm, injury or worse, to self and/or to others is ridiculous. The loss of a few pieces of paper money does not exist on that scale.

Once you know the machinations needed to execute a strategy on a platform, yes, sim trading is a waste of time, effort, and energy. Not even including the potential negative cognitive conditioning sim trading may produce.

Drills..drills..drills..better execution...second nature...etc

 

[volpri]

Comparing sim trading to simulating or practicing things that can cause physical harm, injury or worse, to self and/or to others is ridiculous. The loss of a few pieces of paper money does not exist on that scale.

Once you know the machinations needed to execute a strategy on a platform, yes, sim trading is a waste of time, effort, and energy. Not even including the potential negative cognitive conditioning sim trading may produce.

If a trader can’t make it on a sim they won’t make it on a real money account. However, IF they make it on a Sim they MIGHT make it on an account with real money on the line.

Loss of $$$ can cause physical harm ..injury..or loss...(remember the jumpers Great Depression.) Practicing drills on a SIM can CONDITION a trader to do “what he is supposed to do...when he is supposed to do it...how he is supposed to do it...regardless of how he “feels” about it (discipline). Hence it can be beneficial. Nevertheless, it is still a step or two away from trading with money. Just like learning about flying on a sim has it’s definite benefits but the day a pilot actually flies..a real plane...well there is a difference but the Sim was useful in conditioning his responses to real life situations.

There is great benefit in sim...........again if a trader can’t consistently make money (even if it is play money) on a sim he is NOT going to consistently make money trading trading an account with actual funds in it. That not only is logical but it is common sense.