That was the same morning ES hit limit down. Did nq as well ? I don't follow it.
This is what it takes to be successful at trading (mindset)
- Thread starter djmartin
- Start date
That was the same morning ES hit limit down. Did nq as well ? I don't follow it.
Well, another way to look at it is that they fail to stick to their plan because their plan is crap and they don't have what is commonly called an edge here on ET. You can't be 'trading in the zone' if you don't know how the markets work.
That's why I said that psychology is overrated. I didn't say it's insignificant. Far from it. You also need a huge drive to be able to succeed in this business. I'm just saying it shouldn't be the primary focus of someone who's starting out and that in most cases I'd wager to say that their problems aren't psychological, but technical.
Further, the OP asked if I thought it's possible to make money with a true edge, but a 'terrible psychology'.
Of course. You can create a quantitative system and have someone else trade it. Or automate it. Or whatever.
It doesn't work the other way around though since you can't 'trade in the zone' without market knowledge.
Most newbies think they have a good trading plan when they start trading and then soon afterwards realize they didn't. As soon as they realize they don't have a good trading plan, they start changing it but they keep trading while tweaking it here and there.
Further, in the beginning, psychology of trading is far from their thoughts. Simply, in the beginning...they really don't believe in it and continue concentrating their efforts on tweaking their trading plan.
Only after a few blow ups or enough losses do they start to realize that the problem in their trading is looking at them in the mirror.
There's a few trade journals here were folks are using the same trade method but some doing well and others doing poorly. There's many more trade journals here at ET where guys say they backtested their method and the results were a positive expectancy and then simulated traded their method for consistent profits to only then see consistent losses when they went live trading with real money...
What's the problem ?
Psychology isn't a factor in backtesting and not a factor in simulation but a big factor in real money trading. Its that pressure of not having the proper mindset to be trading with real money.
Simply, in the beginning...most traders think psychology is over-rated or not important until its too late. Yet, once in awhile...two traders using the same trade method with dramatically different trading results (many examples here at ET) begin to look in the mirror...psychology is underrated.
Getting back to the video I posted, its about a person losing control (not able to manage his emotions) and that lack of management allow something to go from bad to worst. There's many other stories like that but that don't involve someone losing control while in a trade...stories about people seemingly cool or Ok while at work but completely lose it when they leave work...
They do worst things than throw a chair like the guy in the video...things that impact their lives and the lives of others around them.
Therefore, if you think this is about a trade method...you're completely missing the point. Its about how trading will break most individuals and I'm not talking about just financially. Thus, some folks break under pressure and most retail traders do not have anything in place to sniff out psychological problems like other financial careers do.
Like I stated earlier, there are people in trading and many other careers at the top of their game...eventually the pressure catches up and then its a spiral downfall until they get psychological or psychiatric help...those that get help are the truly lucky ones.
Further, in the beginning, psychology of trading is far from their thoughts. Simply, in the beginning...they really don't believe in it and continue concentrating their efforts on tweaking their trading plan.
Only after a few blow ups or enough losses do they start to realize that the problem in their trading is looking at them in the mirror.
There's a few trade journals here were folks are using the same trade method but some doing well and others doing poorly. There's many more trade journals here at ET where guys say they backtested their method and the results were a positive expectancy and then simulated traded their method for consistent profits to only then see consistent losses when they went live trading with real money...
What's the problem ?
Psychology isn't a factor in backtesting and not a factor in simulation but a big factor in real money trading. Its that pressure of not having the proper mindset to be trading with real money.
Simply, in the beginning...most traders think psychology is over-rated or not important until its too late. Yet, once in awhile...two traders using the same trade method with dramatically different trading results (many examples here at ET) begin to look in the mirror...psychology is underrated.
Getting back to the video I posted, its about a person losing control (not able to manage his emotions) and that lack of management allow something to go from bad to worst. There's many other stories like that but that don't involve someone losing control while in a trade...stories about people seemingly cool or Ok while at work but completely lose it when they leave work...
They do worst things than throw a chair like the guy in the video...things that impact their lives and the lives of others around them.
Therefore, if you think this is about a trade method...you're completely missing the point. Its about how trading will break most individuals and I'm not talking about just financially. Thus, some folks break under pressure and most retail traders do not have anything in place to sniff out psychological problems like other financial careers do.
Like I stated earlier, there are people in trading and many other careers at the top of their game...eventually the pressure catches up and then its a spiral downfall until they get psychological or psychiatric help...those that get help are the truly lucky ones.
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Well, another way to look at it is that they fail to stick to their plan because their plan is crap and they don't have what is commonly called an edge here on ET. You can't be 'trading in the zone' if you don't know how the markets work.
That's why I said that psychology is overrated. I didn't say it's insignificant. Far from it. You also need a huge drive to be able to succeed in this business. I'm just saying it shouldn't be the primary focus of someone who's starting out and that in most cases I'd wager to say that their problems aren't psychological, but technical.
Further, the OP asked if I thought it's possible to make money with a true edge, but a 'terrible psychology'.
Of course. You can create a quantitative system and have someone else trade it. Or automate it. Or whatever.
It doesn't work the other way around though since you can't 'trade in the zone' without market knowledge.
Yes I concur. If you have an actual edge and know what you are doing it is much easier to follow your plan as you are getting constant positive rewards creating the positive feedback loop. If you are just pissing around punting with no edge your results are going to be all over the shop, it will be much harder psychologically for you. Edge trumps psychology fo sure.
GL.
You need the right mindset to keep pushing forward when your on the journy to find your edge. A true edge just doesn't happen overnight it takes time to find your edge. During that time you need the right mindset to get through the doubt and frustration. If your a weak minded person your going to quit before you find that edge. Anyone who has been at this for awhile and still hasn't found there edge and your still searching, putting in the time and effort I tip my hat off to you for hanging in there. The difference between those who succeed and those who fail is mindset. If you have a never give up attitude eventually your going to find your egde. Just my 2 cents.
you cant work harder to become a better trader
Mindset and psychology is overrated.
Its beyond overrated. Its a crutch that destroys accounts "with confidence" of those who should not be trading at all. Those without an edge.
Its a dangerous delusion that keeps the losers coming back for more.
I believe that success is really a state of mind. Mindset is a key for success everywhere, not only at trading. Those of you who are not believing in this things just try to read about mindset as much as you can. Trading in some way is simple to a sport. It requires hard discipline and strong nerves because we all work under the pressure. But when football players risk only with the score on the screen, we're risking with all our money and our future. Think about it!