This is mind blowing
- Thread starter Maverick74
- Start date
Quote from C6H12O6:
Be serious, you can't compare apples and oranges.
If the quality of chinese buildings is like the average quality of their other products, in 10 years those buildings will collapse in dust on their own
Wont even take 10 years.
Here is a brand new apartment building in shanghai that fell over before the residents even moved in!
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He is joking about the pollution. It isn't so bad really, esp. at places like the Century Park.
Quote from shortie:
notice that the bottom pic is taken around noon on a bright summer day
Quote from shortie:
notice that the bottom pic is taken around noon on a bright summer day
Then you should be very careful to analyze how this "wealth transfer" breaks down. It is almost entirely built by Americans CHOOSING cheap products manufactured in China. Wall Mart has never done better than in 2008/2009. It is not fair to blame bailout funds and rescue packages for this big shift in trade balance.
Dont get me wrong, I think any single bailout of any firm in 2008 was wrong and only delayed the inevitable. But Trade balances of this magnitude are not created because taxpayers' moneys or subsidies are transferred abroad. It is because of the choices consumers make. Americans (and many other Western societies) chose to pay for quantity over quality. Think about it, who wants to pay 200+ USD for a quality cordless home phone? Most chose the 30-40 buck version. Ironically its always the low profit margin products that you can really strike it rich with if you can really leverage and sell in bulk. Thats what the Chinese did. And its almost over, the mass manufacturing machinery is already seeking cheaper markets to produce in. China is aggressively seeking to get to the next level.
I dont care whether some of our generation have a hard time to concede defeat to the Chinese or have a hard time grasping that this is the Asian millennium. But any bickering, imho, wont change this fact. Think about institutional trading alone (the area I work in for over 12 years now): Thousands of traders are standing on the street if they have not already written off their career and do something else in the US. Banks have completely dismantled their prop trading groups in the US. On to Europe, salaries and bonuses were and are laughable in Central Europe. On to the UK, you now need to pay close to 50% additional taxes on your bonus, London with this step has lost its last competitive edge. What is left? Japan certainly not, they are lost in translation and really need to re-invent themselves, financially as well as innovation wise as part of their manufacturing power. Left is China, HK, Singapore. Those are the cities were all the money is to be made. Thats why tons of hedge funds strengthen their offices in this region, banks are beefing up staff and trading desks. The growth story here is far from being over. Think about it. It has really just even started, you think the number millionaires and entrepreneurs is gonna decline in China from here onwards? Think again. China has not even started to liberalize many currently closed markets and parts of its economy. Think foreign exchange. You really think anyone will ever mention the USD again in relation to reserve currency terminology, once China has completely liberalized currency in and out flows and payment for trade? I highly doubt it.
Back to the main topic: The wealth transfer is fully justified. We ourselves chose it this way, we, the consumer made a clear purchase decision. We rejected German and Japanese high precision cameras and rather went with the Sonys and Korean makers who all manufacture in China. And its understandable. In this "new" world you can pay relatively little to satisfy a life style that got you to a higher level, perception wise, than previously possible. Its called competitive advantage. Stuff got made at the place where it was most efficient. Our and new generations made a choice to elect "Satisfaction Now" over "save and invest". Why is anyone surprised about what happened in the past 20 years. The only thing that sometimes gets me thinking is how fast this transition process has been. It sometimes scares me to think that things may even further accelerate, and I am just 36, I should not be scared of that. But I am. Cause what I am missing the most is QUALITY. We sacrificed quality, moral values, ethics for the green shiny stuff. Thats what sometimes saddens me a lot.
Dont get me wrong, I think any single bailout of any firm in 2008 was wrong and only delayed the inevitable. But Trade balances of this magnitude are not created because taxpayers' moneys or subsidies are transferred abroad. It is because of the choices consumers make. Americans (and many other Western societies) chose to pay for quantity over quality. Think about it, who wants to pay 200+ USD for a quality cordless home phone? Most chose the 30-40 buck version. Ironically its always the low profit margin products that you can really strike it rich with if you can really leverage and sell in bulk. Thats what the Chinese did. And its almost over, the mass manufacturing machinery is already seeking cheaper markets to produce in. China is aggressively seeking to get to the next level.
I dont care whether some of our generation have a hard time to concede defeat to the Chinese or have a hard time grasping that this is the Asian millennium. But any bickering, imho, wont change this fact. Think about institutional trading alone (the area I work in for over 12 years now): Thousands of traders are standing on the street if they have not already written off their career and do something else in the US. Banks have completely dismantled their prop trading groups in the US. On to Europe, salaries and bonuses were and are laughable in Central Europe. On to the UK, you now need to pay close to 50% additional taxes on your bonus, London with this step has lost its last competitive edge. What is left? Japan certainly not, they are lost in translation and really need to re-invent themselves, financially as well as innovation wise as part of their manufacturing power. Left is China, HK, Singapore. Those are the cities were all the money is to be made. Thats why tons of hedge funds strengthen their offices in this region, banks are beefing up staff and trading desks. The growth story here is far from being over. Think about it. It has really just even started, you think the number millionaires and entrepreneurs is gonna decline in China from here onwards? Think again. China has not even started to liberalize many currently closed markets and parts of its economy. Think foreign exchange. You really think anyone will ever mention the USD again in relation to reserve currency terminology, once China has completely liberalized currency in and out flows and payment for trade? I highly doubt it.
Back to the main topic: The wealth transfer is fully justified. We ourselves chose it this way, we, the consumer made a clear purchase decision. We rejected German and Japanese high precision cameras and rather went with the Sonys and Korean makers who all manufacture in China. And its understandable. In this "new" world you can pay relatively little to satisfy a life style that got you to a higher level, perception wise, than previously possible. Its called competitive advantage. Stuff got made at the place where it was most efficient. Our and new generations made a choice to elect "Satisfaction Now" over "save and invest". Why is anyone surprised about what happened in the past 20 years. The only thing that sometimes gets me thinking is how fast this transition process has been. It sometimes scares me to think that things may even further accelerate, and I am just 36, I should not be scared of that. But I am. Cause what I am missing the most is QUALITY. We sacrificed quality, moral values, ethics for the green shiny stuff. Thats what sometimes saddens me a lot.
Grow up, little man, you need to learn to look at things from a little more distance. Not a percent more of Shanghai's or Beijing's population is dying off cancer than New Yorkers or people in Chicago. So, sit down, relax, and analyze a little further. There are polluted areas, yes, and that was by choice. You will be surprised how fast things can get cleaned up. Look at the Gulf of M, in a few years you will be there happily swimming with your kids and BP comes to your mind and you smile....same with many polluted areas in China. The government built up national champions and industries and sacrificed the environment on the way. Well, this is gonna change and things get cleaned up more quickly than you can imagine. Not all but a lot. This world is not fair, not everyone has a choice, not everyone has all the options. But given the constraints and where China came from, its leaders made a wise choice to sacrifice a few things in favor of raising living standards for most. Some pay the price this is life, whether you like it or not. Please dont respond with links and pics, I travel to China pretty much several times each month, I am very well informed of the ecological situation in certain areas. But again, look at things in context and you at least understand what is going on, even you may disagree. I am myself not endorsing all the things that happened in this regards....but talking as if you only know black and white makes you look very stupid, and you are not stupid, right?
Oh yeah, "chinese concrete" and "chinese steel" !
I can't even write those words together...
Thank you, LOL
That's a 13 stories building (~36 meters ?), with foundations only 2 meters deep, plus some poles in the ground (steel poles ? or plastic poles, LOL ?). That's some first-class engineering
At least the building didn't disintegrate after the fall.