ThinkorSwim vs IB's TWS

Vix-Trader · Mar 10, 2014

I've been using ThinkorSwim for years, but I just moved over to IB a few days ago to give it a shot. So far I gotta say, IB seems pretty horrible. I've been through all the tutorials and I'm just not understanding why it's rated so highly.

Before I give up on it and go back to ThinkorSwim, can anybody here give me some tips maybe to understand why people like it.

I trade options only, so I'm really only interested in analyzing potential option spreads before I open them, and then of course managing the greeks of trades I currently have open, as well as back testing strategies as far back as they can go.

I'm not seeing any of this on IB's TWS platform. Help would be much appreciated.

learner2007 · Mar 10, 2014

Vix-Trader said:
I've been using ThinkorSwim for years, but I just moved over to IB a few days ago to give it a shot. So far I gotta say, IB seems pretty horrible. I've been through all the tutorials and I'm just not understanding why it's rated so highly.

Before I give up on it and go back to ThinkorSwim, can anybody here give me some tips maybe to understand why people like it.

I trade options only, so I'm really only interested in analyzing potential option spreads before I open them, and then of course managing the greeks of trades I currently have open, as well as back testing strategies as far back as they can go.

I'm not seeing any of this on IB's TWS platform. Help would be much appreciated.

As you trade options, you might want to check out beta version 944 which looks to add some features for option traders and see if those additions would be of any help to you.

https://individuals.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=1537
click 'release notes'

https://individuals.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=554

Brighton · Mar 10, 2014

She ain't pretty, but she puts out.

Reasons to stay:
- low cost
- breadth of products
- commission rebates on options. Even if you're trading 'retail' you might find a fair number of your trades are nearly free
- financial size and stability
- speed of platform
- Risk Navigator
- reporting, to include transaction, day and month-end, portfolio analysis, margin and risk

True, IB doesn't offer much in the way of options analysis. It's getting better but it's still pretty clunky looking and the "Lab" components seem to pull IVs out of the air. That said, the last time I looked at T.O.S., their multi-month vol skew charts for futures options were garbage and unusable.

Lots of people do their option research elsewhere and then execute the trade on IB.

Vix-Trader · Mar 10, 2014

Brighton said:
Lots of people do their option research elsewhere and then execute the trade on IB.

I'm starting to get the impression that's what I'll be doing. There's no doubt it's a cost saver as commissions are quite a bit cheaper then Ameritrade, but man is the analysis software ghetto.

And closing trades is absolutely laughable. If you sell an Iron Condor and want to close it out, you actually have to re-create the exact opposite trade and buy that one. There is no simple right click, sell option. WTF? Did a 6 year old write this software?

How hard is it to allow option spreads to be closed out as a single trade? My god...

drownpruf · Mar 10, 2014

It's trading from a spreadsheet. If you like the cluttered OE of ToS then by all means transfer back to ToS.

drownpruf · Mar 10, 2014

Vix-Trader said:
I'm starting to get the impression that's what I'll be doing. There's no doubt it's a cost saver as commissions are quite a bit cheaper then Ameritrade, but man is the analysis software ghetto.

And closing trades is absolutely laughable. If you sell an Iron Condor and want to close it out, you actually have to re-create the exact opposite trade and buy that one. There is no simple right click, sell option. WTF? Did a 6 year old write this software?

How hard is it to allow option spreads to be closed out as a single trade? My god...

What's laughable is your belief that you have to create another IC to close out the existing trade. There is an IQ prereq to using TWS.

Tough concept here... you buy (short gamma) the -5.63 and sell the -5.91 (long gamma). Obv I am using marketable orders to prove a point. How difficult is that?

TheGoonior · Mar 10, 2014

Vix-Trader said:
I'm starting to get the impression that's what I'll be doing. There's no doubt it's a cost saver as commissions are quite a bit cheaper then Ameritrade, but man is the analysis software ghetto.

And closing trades is absolutely laughable. If you sell an Iron Condor and want to close it out, you actually have to re-create the exact opposite trade and buy that one. There is no simple right click, sell option. WTF? Did a 6 year old write this software?

How hard is it to allow option spreads to be closed out as a single trade? My god...

The SpreadTrader tab allows you to create all the standard options profiles, so no need to generate them manually (i.e: OptionTrader tab).

Vix-Trader · Mar 11, 2014

drownpruf said:
What's laughable is your belief that you have to create another IC to close out the existing trade. There is an IQ prereq to using TWS.

Tough concept here... you buy (short gamma) the -5.63 and sell the -5.91 (long gamma). Obv I am using marketable orders to prove a point. How difficult is that?

First off, that's actually how you have to close spreads with TWS. You have to create the opposite trade and execute it. Whether you use price, gamma, or whatever else you want, it's the same exact concept. You're backing out of the trade without the system doing it for you with the simple click of a button like every other quality trading software in existence. As I said, anybody over the age of 6 should understand that a simple right click --> close is all the computer system should need. I didn't say I couldn't do it the way TWS makes you do it, I simply said I shouldn't have to. Don't even try to pretend you don't understand how irrational and illogical some aspects of TWS are.

Secondly, it is actually possible to comment on forums without being a dick about it. High school insults about IQ? Seriously?

TWS is garbage for charting and analysis of options, and it's irrational and slow for executing trades. It certainly has a lot of industry leading aspects as well which is why people use it, but you really don't need to try to pretend you don't know there are flaws with it. That just makes you sound like a hack. Oh wait, you used the word gamma, you must be a pro...

1245 · Mar 11, 2014

Vix-Trader said:
I've been using ThinkorSwim for years, but I just moved over to IB a few days ago to give it a shot. So far I gotta say, IB seems pretty horrible. I've been through all the tutorials and I'm just not understanding why it's rated so highly.

Before I give up on it and go back to ThinkorSwim, can anybody here give me some tips maybe to understand why people like it.

I trade options only, so I'm really only interested in analyzing potential option spreads before I open them, and then of course managing the greeks of trades I currently have open, as well as back testing strategies as far back as they can go.

I'm not seeing any of this on IB's TWS platform. Help would be much appreciated.

In my opinion:TWS is very good for equity trading and horrible for option trading. TOS is good for option trading but "good" for retail equity trading, not professional equity traders. Also, support at IB is horrible but support at TD is very good for a retail online trading firm.

I asked a question from the IB support team on February 18th and received a response on March 9th. That would never happen at TD or an Introducing Broker with professional support.

1245

1245 · Mar 11, 2014

Brighton said:
She ain't pretty, but she puts out.

Reasons to stay:
- low cost
- breadth of products
- commission rebates on options. Even if you're trading 'retail' you might find a fair number of your trades are nearly free
- financial size and stability
- speed of platform
- Risk Navigator
- reporting, to include transaction, day and month-end, portfolio analysis, margin and risk

True, IB doesn't offer much in the way of options analysis. It's getting better but it's still pretty clunky looking and the "Lab" components seem to pull IVs out of the air. That said, the last time I looked at T.O.S., their multi-month vol skew charts for futures options were garbage and unusable.

Lots of people do their option research elsewhere and then execute the trade on IB.

TWS COB option ticket is clumsy and pushes smart routing. The order does not enter the COB at the exchange, resides in the TWS order router, so you are not exposed to other broker's orders until IB feels the order is executable. If you switch to option DMA, they ask you at each leg, "are you sure you don't want smart," then they charge you $1.00/contract, because it routes the order outside their option dark pool.

1245