Thinking Of Going For CFA -- Is It Possible?

[systematictrader]

Hello all,

I'm seeking some sound advice and helpful suggestions here.

First off, I am *NOT* looking to get a job in a bank or prop firm or such. This is not really intended as a career move.

Why am I interested in it? Well:
1) I'm interested in the topic itself (I find it genuinely interesting)

2) Having a certificate/credentials for self-validation reasons.. okey, kinda vain. But at least if people ask what I do, I can at least back it up saying I am CFA certified (as opposed to wild man with a laptop)

3) In the future I may wish to start up a hedge fund or investment advisor firm and I think the CFA will help with local regulatory body.


Now, I know I can get CFA I/II, but not the full CFA (III) without at least having work experience. Given that I have none, and do not desire to work for someone else to get it, what does one suggest?

Should I give up before starting or does someone have a useful suggestion for me

Thank you kindly.

what you want to do is exactly like myself,,,, I earned a Masers in Investment Management and Financial Analysis Creighton University from 2013-2016

we had NO text books for any of our classes, our text books were the CFA curriculum books themselves, along that ive been trading since 2008, we covered pretty much about 75% of level in the program, and it was out of order since the studying we did was designed for the program obviously and not for the CFA itself, which is what you would do if your studying for the CFA. go in order from Module 1- 54 or so

the more i studied from the CFA books the more i didn't want to become a CFA,,, the learning material was very good,, i like you thought i have an extreme interest in the subject but the level of difficulty steps up as you get deeper and you find it not fully related to trading and is more theoretical than applicable, if your trading along side of this and your thinking the CFA is related to what i already do and i can do both easily since i wouldnt be adding much of a workload then your wrong, because what u do in trading is not so much what ur gonna study in CFA,,, sure it adds a layer of understanding and gives you some points but just understand that you will be doing two seperate things,,, although both in finance,, still seperate,,, for me considering i know 75% of each level i still DONT WANT to pursue my CFA and if i change my mind it wont be any time soon, thats because i also want to eventually set up a hedge fund and my concern is more so to establish a solid track record for my self first and for clients after once i set up the fund..

 

[yiehom]

A waste of time? Is it not the most difficult exam in the industry?

There's no such thing as a CFA 1 or 2. There are 3 tests but no designation until you've passed the 3rd test. It's not a designation that has any regulatory impact

Don't get it. It's a waste of time under almost any circumstance.

Garachen, CFA

 

[cartmm]

I would suggest you do it. The most important thing is motivation because its a lot of work, so being very interested in the subject matter is a great start. When I did it I couldn't wait to open the books every night and learn, even after a full day of work.

Many people recognise the hard work involved so why not do it also partly to enhance your CV. It may not be a regulatory requirement, but its definitely not a bad thing to have as it will enhance your other qualifications and experience. Many investors will also appreciate it.

The CFA Institute has an assessment on their website. It seems to me that you could be meeting some of the criteria (I just did it with 'your' experience & the result was 'very likely' you would qualify), at least to the letter. But maybe you should ask them direct to see how they treat independent traders/investors. If you can show you are full time and treating it as a profession, maybe you could make a strong case.

cartmm, ex-CFA

 

[Sig]

A pretty expensive investment to get an MBA "just for yourself" if you ask me. Most formal education is garbage and cannot be applied to life other than getting the foot in the door with potential employers or fill your resume to speak to potential investors/backers. But of course there are also many who lack self-esteem and self-confidence and believe they need the education nameplate to make up for their otherwise boring appearance in life. Self-justification so to speak.

That's an odd perspective to take, how many bridges would you want to drive over that weren't designed by someone with a civil engineering degree? Or flights on an airplane guided by avionics designed by people without EE degrees? That kind of anti-intellectualism is generally held by either those who have little education or are Taleb style rock throwers. It's absurd on its face, especially when talking about pretty much any technical field.

On the specifics of an MBA, I would have stayed for another year in my program if I could have because there was so much fascinating stuff that I just didn't have time to go into all of it in 18 months. After the first year core courses it was all "for myself" intellectual interest and for me it was quite life changing. If you're looking for a trade school then you'll be disappointed by an MBA, and if you're looking for tradesmen to come out of MBA programs you'll think little of them. Some of us have a great deal of intellectual curiosity, some don't. Seems the world is a far more exciting and interesting place if you do, but that's just me.

 

[newwurldmn]

On the specifics of an MBA, I would have stayed for another year in my program if I could have because there was so much fascinating stuff that I just didn't have time to go into all of it in 18 months. After the first year core courses it was all "for myself" intellectual interest and for me it was quite life changing. If you're looking for a trade school then you'll be disappointed by an MBA, and if you're looking for tradesmen to come out of MBA programs you'll think little of them. Some of us have a great deal of intellectual curiosity, some don't. Seems the world is a far more exciting and interesting place if you do, but that's just me.

I never went for my MBA but I have many family members who did. I agree with your assessment. If you can get into a top MBA program it might be worth the two year investment just to see all the exciting stuff and opportunities after school. There is more to life than making Wall Street levels of money.

 

[Zzzz1]

I want to drive over bridges that were built by solid construction crews. And I want to eat bread made by an established and traditional Baker not necessarily someone with a degree in food science or nutrition. Engineering skills can be learned and taught in a vocational setting in the exact same setting pilots learn to bear the responsibility of the lives of many.

My point is that most graduate school programs are a waste of time, cost a fortune, really only buy your way into the interview room while subject matter that really matters can be learned much more efficiently elsewhere. I say this as someone with an advanced degree from Carnegie Mellon. It pushed the boundaries of what I thought I could achieve but then that I could have experienced way cheaper elsewhere and then my particular program at CMU stood out for making their students undergo a boot camp like rigorous program. Still hardly anything I studied or learned there I ever applied in any of my jobs or life.

Things will change anyway, so I welcome a changing mindset: the gifted and talented figured out long time ago they don't need a piece of paper to advance in life. The less gifted figured out that education the way it's currently sold to the masses has become unaffordable to most. So, at the moment programs that cost 200k or the like to complete are for the fortunate few whose parents can afford it or who are happy to start/continue their path with a nice pile of debt.

By the way, I have great intellectual curiosity. And I am entirely self taught or learned things with an inner circle of others in multiple disciplines. If someone needs to shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars to satisfy that intellectual curiosity and feels the need to expose oneself to the confines of academic institutions to learn then I dare say that such curiosity is perhaps not all that strong after all in such individual?

That's an odd perspective to take, how many bridges would you want to drive over that weren't designed by someone with a civil engineering degree? Or flights on an airplane guided by avionics designed by people without EE degrees? That kind of anti-intellectualism is generally held by either those who have little education or are Taleb style rock throwers. It's absurd on its face, especially when talking about pretty much any technical field.

On the specifics of an MBA, I would have stayed for another year in my program if I could have because there was so much fascinating stuff that I just didn't have time to go into all of it in 18 months. After the first year core courses it was all "for myself" intellectual interest and for me it was quite life changing. If you're looking for a trade school then you'll be disappointed by an MBA, and if you're looking for tradesmen to come out of MBA programs you'll think little of them. Some of us have a great deal of intellectual curiosity, some don't. Seems the world is a far more exciting and interesting place if you do, but that's just me.

 

[Sig]

I want to drive over bridges that were built by solid construction crews. And I want to eat bread made by an established and traditional Baker not necessarily someone with a degree in food science or nutrition. Engineering skills can be learned and taught in a vocational setting in the exact same setting pilots learn to bear the responsibility of the lives of many.

My point is that most graduate school programs are a waste of time, cost a fortune, really only buy your way into the interview room while subject matter that really matters can be learned much more efficiently elsewhere. I say this as someone with an advanced degree from Carnegie Mellon. It pushed the boundaries of what I thought I could achieve but then that I could have experienced way cheaper elsewhere and then my particular program at CMU stood out for making their students undergo a boot camp like rigorous program. Still hardly anything I studied or learned there I ever applied in any of my jobs or life.

Things will change anyway, so I welcome a changing mindset: the gifted and talented figured out long time ago they don't need a piece of paper to advance in life. The less gifted figured out that education the way it's currently sold to the masses has become unaffordable to most. So, at the moment programs that cost 200k or the like to complete are for the fortunate few whose parents can afford it or who are happy to start/continue their path with a nice pile of debt.

OK, you seriously are saying that something like electrical engineering and all the math that goes along with it can be taught in a vocational setting? Again, you sound pretty ignorant of what goes into that, or if you indeed have an engineering degree from CMU you're just being obtuse. No way in hades I could have picked up what I learned in my EE degree on the job or at a library. I'm not a civil engineer, but from the survey classes I had to take in statics and strengths I can tell that there is far more that goes into constructing a bridge then the knowledge of an on the job trained construction crew, however good they are at their job. Which they'll be the first to tell you is building the bridge, not designing it. And by the way, as someone who spent 18 months at Navy flight school before getting wings that allowed me to be a copilot and start my on the job training, I can tell you that you don't have much of an idea of what it takes to become a pilot either. At some point hyperbole and being purposely obtuse just start to make you sound rediculous. I'd submit you've reached that point.

Gifted and talented people who are intellectually curious generally go to places where others like them are to be found and gain much from that experience. We generally call these places universities, although you can find other places for sure. There they greatly enrich their lives, learn how to learn and think critically, are exposed to hundreds of things and viewpoints they didn't previously know existed, and most come out feeling enriched for it. You seem to view the world in a very transactional, vocational school manner. You go to school to learn x and nothing but x and all else is a waste of time. That's a very limited and in the end sad for you point of view. I'm sorry to hear that CMU breeds that kind of mentality, you really missed out on the opportunity for a great experience.

 

[Zzzz1]

What exiting opportunities are you talking about? How someone was not sent to France or Asia to represent the company one works at but now can with the blessing of a piece of paper which really only proves one got in but not much more beyond that? I was treated like shit in interviews when I tried to transition from a support role to a trading function about 17 years ago just because my college was not all that great. Then I instead went for an advanced quant program at Carnegie Mellon and voila, I was suddenly flown in via business class and accommodated in top hotels thousands of miles from the US just to fly in for the final round of interviews towards my conclusion of grad school. It was surreal and outright disgusting. I was offered several trading positions right out of grad school and the firms truly competed for my signature. I hardly ever applied a single thing I learned at school at the job. You tell me how valuable that grad school degree really was other than open doors.

I never went for my MBA but I have many family members who did. I agree with your assessment. If you can get into a top MBA program it might be worth the two year investment just to see all the exciting stuff and opportunities after school. There is more to life than making Wall Street levels of money.

 

[Zzzz1]

I studied quant finance in grad school not engineering. And yes I meant every word I said. In the same way than commercial pilots train in specialized schools that only focus on teaching precisely what is needed on the job, those who fly military aircraft or jobs that require high levels of specialization train in very specific settings/schools. That is exactly my point: that a broad and generalist approach to education has become unaffordable to many and wastes a huge amount of time. If you have 200k to waste, need a 2 year or 18 month break from life and wanna go for the chuckle then yes, an MBA is great. I would argue that we are in the midst of finding better and more efficient ways to teach people, whether it's science related fields or the arts

OK, you seriously are saying that something like electrical engineering and all the math that goes along with it can be taught in a vocational setting? Again, you sound pretty ignorant of what goes into that, or if you indeed have an engineering degree from CMU you're just being obtuse. No way in hades I could have picked up what I learned in my EE degree on the job or at a library. I'm not a civil engineer, but from the survey classes I had to take in statics and strengths I can tell that there is far more that goes into constructing a bridge then the knowledge of an on the job trained construction crew, however good they are at their job. Which they'll be the first to tell you is building the bridge, not designing it. And by the way, as someone who spent 18 months at Navy flight school before getting wings that allowed me to be a copilot and start my on the job training, I can tell you that you don't have much of an idea of what it takes to become a pilot either. At some point hyperbole and being purposely obtuse just start to make you sound rediculous. I'd submit you've reached that point.

Gifted and talented people who are intellectually curious generally go to places where others like them are to be found and gain much from that experience. We generally call these places universities, although you can find other places for sure. There they greatly enrich their lives, learn how to learn and think critically, are exposed to hundreds of things and viewpoints they didn't previously know existed, and most come out feeling enriched for it. You seem to view the world in a very transactional, vocational school manner. You go to school to learn x and nothing but x and all else is a waste of time. That's a very limited and in the end sad for you point of view. I'm sorry to hear that CMU breeds that kind of mentality, you really missed out on the opportunity for a great experience.

 

[Zzzz1]

And please climb down from your high intellectual horse for a moment and give us a breather.

Nobody said that one cannot be intellectually enriched or learn critical thinking, as you so eloquently put it, at universities. I simply claimed that the university institution as we currently know it charges way too much and hence puts that "experience" beyond the affordability of most people. Then you make it sound as if universities teach us the great values of life and all that in a non transactional manner? Give me a break. No other entity in my life is pestering me more about opening my wallets and give give give than my Alma mater. And all that after I shelled out a ridiculous amount during my studies. University are nothing but greedy and inefficiently run institutions and they take it in a purely transactional manner. You suggesting otherwise flies into the face of everything universities nowadays do to market themselves.

Don't get me wrong. I am thankful for my degree and the money I spent to buy it. It got me into the discipline I wanted to get into. And it paid off handsomely. But it was a name I bought and it was purely transactional. All the other virtues in life I self learned, accumulated with good friends and significant others together in small circles or I was bestowed with through the upbringing by my parents. Sorry if you are less driven and need an academic setting to "enrich your life and learn to think ciritically" or if your natural environment did not support you in your quest for a rounded education to ready you for life.

I sense you are representing exactly that portion of the "establishment" that so many out there are tired of and ready to change. Traditional education is shaken to its foundations and the world will not learn anymore the way it learns today in just 1 or 2 decades. We are in a period of transition because the way we went about things are not working anymore and/or have become unaffordable for really no apparent reason.

OK, you seriously are saying that something like electrical engineering and all the math that goes along with it can be taught in a vocational setting? Again, you sound pretty ignorant of what goes into that, or if you indeed have an engineering degree from CMU you're just being obtuse. No way in hades I could have picked up what I learned in my EE degree on the job or at a library. I'm not a civil engineer, but from the survey classes I had to take in statics and strengths I can tell that there is far more that goes into constructing a bridge then the knowledge of an on the job trained construction crew, however good they are at their job. Which they'll be the first to tell you is building the bridge, not designing it. And by the way, as someone who spent 18 months at Navy flight school before getting wings that allowed me to be a copilot and start my on the job training, I can tell you that you don't have much of an idea of what it takes to become a pilot either. At some point hyperbole and being purposely obtuse just start to make you sound rediculous. I'd submit you've reached that point.

Gifted and talented people who are intellectually curious generally go to places where others like them are to be found and gain much from that experience. We generally call these places universities, although you can find other places for sure. There they greatly enrich their lives, learn how to learn and think critically, are exposed to hundreds of things and viewpoints they didn't previously know existed, and most come out feeling enriched for it. You seem to view the world in a very transactional, vocational school manner. You go to school to learn x and nothing but x and all else is a waste of time. That's a very limited and in the end sad for you point of view. I'm sorry to hear that CMU breeds that kind of mentality, you really missed out on the opportunity for a great experience.