It seems that many US businesses sell at low margin and make up the rest by offering finance. Ford for years lost money on every car sold and recouped it on the financing. This is why some industrials trade like financials. Those that can't adapt to tighter credit will just have to pay the price by failing to reduce overcapacity as is normal in a normal cycle.
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They just banned short selling in US
- Thread starter nitro
- Start date
It seems that many US businesses sell at low margin and make up the rest by offering finance. Ford for years lost money on every car sold and recouped it on the financing. This is why some industrials trade like financials. Those that can't adapt to tighter credit will just have to pay the price by failing to reduce overcapacity as is normal in a normal cycle.
Quote from Cutten:
But the shorts were right all along - Lehman was insolvent, the shares were worthless. You and others trying to deny that fact and stifle criticism were guilty of a gigantic fraud perpetrated on every uninformed sucker who bought and held the stock all the way down.
If you had any shame or conscience you would be apologizing to any bagholder in Lehman and other busted financials for helping to lose them money.
More bullshit from you morally deprived morons. Shame? You think rumors, naked shorting were fair to the pension funds and people who worked there? You know. The 10 billion the employees held that was wiped. You wanna stand up to them, and you make your case, and I'll make mine. And I'll tell them I have no respect for the business they ran. And I'll say so. But I think you get your ass kicked, and I get introspective nods.
You think breaking the law is a good idea because some fucking 80 pound deviant says his research is correct? You think 75 years of security law can be tossed aside so some fucking punk in Connecticut can get a new porshe?
I am the guy who got the State of Florida to go after Lehman for part of the three billion they stuck the State of Florida with. Me. Just a private citizen. But one who knew how the Street worked, and why those products were sold. The State didn't want to do it. A well placed phone call seemed to convince them it was a good idea. So, what do we do now, ass wipe? Where do we get that piece of 3,000,000,000. Are you going to apologize to the school kids, or parameds? Is it just ok because they were a shitty company? We already have a deficit of 2.9 billion. What do we do now?
I think we should go after the guys who spread the rumors, and then, they can make little rocks from big ones until the ledger is square. Because by the time we get to them, they'll have no money. What say you?
Stifle criticism? I think you're a cocksucker. I think I'll tell all your friends, and your folks, and then you can disprove it, or live with it. Is that fair? Of course not. And neither is fabricating rumors while you get short. And by the way. That's a federal crime. You can suck all the dicks you want.
What makes you think breaking securities law is part of this business? I've got all the licenses. I don't recall one that says it's ok.
I simply don't understand. But then, I repeat myself.
We are on the precipice of being a third world country. I've fought for ten years for no pay or renumeration of any kind in the hopes I could head off what I, some Govt types, some military guys knew was coming. And still, we all just sit here going, 'I can't believe this shit!! Can you believe this shit? I can't believe what we said would happen is happening."
I really haven't found one person on this board besides 777 who really gets it. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. When you do this, and you personally know five people who are threatened with murder, and one is four years old, who the hell do you think this is?????????? Who the hell do you think is doing this? And who, in our Government, let them do it? You are all about to find out.
where is all this naked short selling in Lehman? the short intrest was never above 5% at its peak in Lehman. How was it ever hard to find shares to borrow for Lehman? Why would anyonce Naked short the stock? If naked short sellers (not short sellers) brought this company down, where is the fair price of Lehman?
Even after the FED brought BCS, BAC and a bunch of other banks into a room, no one was offering to buy Lehman for even $1. WAIT THERE BOOK VALUE WAS $35 A SHARE, WASNT IT?
Was that because of "naked" sHort Selling?
It was because Lehman was taking markes on there books at much higher prices on there books then anyone else at a leverage of 35-1.
Thank god for people like Einhorn who told the public about the fraud at Lehman, he actually gave the funds you speak of time to get out of Lehman Brothers.
You finally got what you wished for. NO SHORTING and companies are going bankrupt left and right, if its WB, WM and according to Harry Reid either HIG, MET, PRU. biggest point decline ever and no one can short 1/5 the market.
look at WB last friday at $25. do you really think its fair if they issued shares at $25? get all those state funds to buy stock and find out its worthless becuase they value everything much higher then JPM who marked down all the same Book? and that was a former GS and Fed offical as ceo
Even after the FED brought BCS, BAC and a bunch of other banks into a room, no one was offering to buy Lehman for even $1. WAIT THERE BOOK VALUE WAS $35 A SHARE, WASNT IT?
Was that because of "naked" sHort Selling?
It was because Lehman was taking markes on there books at much higher prices on there books then anyone else at a leverage of 35-1.
Thank god for people like Einhorn who told the public about the fraud at Lehman, he actually gave the funds you speak of time to get out of Lehman Brothers.
You finally got what you wished for. NO SHORTING and companies are going bankrupt left and right, if its WB, WM and according to Harry Reid either HIG, MET, PRU. biggest point decline ever and no one can short 1/5 the market.
look at WB last friday at $25. do you really think its fair if they issued shares at $25? get all those state funds to buy stock and find out its worthless becuase they value everything much higher then JPM who marked down all the same Book? and that was a former GS and Fed offical as ceo
Quote from flytiger:
More bullshit from you morally deprived morons. Shame? You think rumors, naked shorting were fair to the pension funds and people who worked there? You know. The 10 billion the employees held that was wiped. You wanna stand up to them, and you make your case, and I'll make mine. And I'll tell them I have no respect for the business they ran. And I'll say so. But I think you get your ass kicked, and I get introspective nods.
You think breaking the law is a good idea because some fucking 80 pound deviant says his research is correct? You think 75 years of security law can be tossed aside so some fucking punk in Connecticut can get a new porshe?
I am the guy who got the State of Florida to go after Lehman for part of the three billion they stuck the State of Florida with. Me. Just a private citizen. But one who knew how the Street worked, and why those products were sold. The State didn't want to do it. A well placed phone call seemed to convince them it was a good idea. So, what do we do now, ass wipe? Where do we get that piece of 3,000,000,000. Are you going to apologize to the school kids, or parameds? Is it just ok because they were a shitty company? We already have a deficit of 2.9 billion. What do we do now?
I think we should go after the guys who spread the rumors, and then, they can make little rocks from big ones until the ledger is square. Because by the time we get to them, they'll have no money. What say you?
Stifle criticism? I think you're a cocksucker. I think I'll tell all your friends, and your folks, and then you can disprove it, or live with it. Is that fair? Of course not. And neither is fabricating rumors while you get short. And by the way. That's a federal crime. You can suck all the dicks you want.
What makes you think breaking securities law is part of this business? I've got all the licenses. I don't recall one that says it's ok.
I simply don't understand. But then, I repeat myself.
We are on the precipice of being a third world country. I've fought for ten years for no pay or renumeration of any kind in the hopes I could head off what I, some Govt types, some military guys knew was coming. And still, we all just sit here going, 'I can't believe this shit!! Can you believe this shit? I can't believe what we said would happen is happening."
I really haven't found one person on this board besides 777 who really gets it. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. When you do this, and you personally know five people who are threatened with murder, and one is four years old, who the hell do you think this is?????????? Who the hell do you think is doing this? And who, in our Government, let them do it? You are all about to find out.
http://www.deepcapture.com/the-naked-short-selling-that-toppled-wall-street/#comments
I don't get involved much in the raw data. But I do know the game, and can see it. The guys might ask from time to time, "hey, how does this work in the real world," and I'm happy to help.
But this, and I didn't know it was coming, is the most compelling narrative yet of the demise of Leh, and Bsc. You go ahead and argue the data all you want. But yesterday, the subpoenas went out for the rumors. After reading this, you know what they'll find. And I'm sure the boys turned their stuff over to the Feds. They're like that, you know.
'.......that's the sound of the men, working on the chain - ---- -gang.................."
I don't get involved much in the raw data. But I do know the game, and can see it. The guys might ask from time to time, "hey, how does this work in the real world," and I'm happy to help.
But this, and I didn't know it was coming, is the most compelling narrative yet of the demise of Leh, and Bsc. You go ahead and argue the data all you want. But yesterday, the subpoenas went out for the rumors. After reading this, you know what they'll find. And I'm sure the boys turned their stuff over to the Feds. They're like that, you know.
'.......that's the sound of the men, working on the chain - ---- -gang.................."
Quote from KeithOmalley:
where is all this naked short selling in Lehman? the short intrest was never above 5% at its peak in Lehman. How was it ever hard to find shares to borrow for Lehman? Why would anyonce Naked short the stock? If naked short sellers (not short sellers) brought this company down, where is the fair price of Lehman?
Even after the FED brought BCS, BAC and a bunch of other banks into a room, no one was offering to buy Lehman for even $1. WAIT THERE BOOK VALUE WAS $35 A SHARE, WASNT IT?
Was that because of "naked" sHort Selling?
It was because Lehman was taking markes on there books at much higher prices on there books then anyone else at a leverage of 35-1.
Thank god for people like Einhorn who told the public about the fraud at Lehman, he actually gave the funds you speak of time to get out of Lehman Brothers.
You finally got what you wished for. NO SHORTING and companies are going bankrupt left and right, if its WB, WM and according to Harry Reid either HIG, MET, PRU. biggest point decline ever and no one can short 1/5 the market.
look at WB last friday at $25. do you really think its fair if they issued shares at $25? get all those state funds to buy stock and find out its worthless becuase they value everything much higher then JPM who marked down all the same Book? and that was a former GS and Fed offical as ceo
naked is sexy. mix in short selling and you got a soapbox to pontificate on.
who cares about the reality? the truth be damned.
Quote from KeithOmalley:
Thank god for people like Einhorn who told the public about the fraud at Lehman, he actually gave the funds you speak of time to get out of Lehman Brothers.
I guess you haven't heard, Einhorn is having a miserable summer. he may have been right on his bet with Lehman but, didn't he lose big time with New Century?
and now this...
GLRE Greenlight Capital reports preliminary Q3 loss/share of $3.30-$3.45 (no estimates) (22.89 )
Co reports prelimary Q3 loss of $3.30-$3.45, no estimates. The company expects to report fully diluted book value per share as of Sep 30, 2008 in the range of $14.05-$14.20. GLRE's investment return for the month ended Sep 30, 2008 was -11.5%. For the qtr ended September 30, 2008 the investment return was -15.9%. Co states, "While our underwriting portfolio continues to perform well, this has been an extraordinarily difficult investment period," said David Einhorn, Chairman of the Board of Directors. "While we believe short term investment results could continue to be challenged, we expect the current dislocations will create good opportunities and remain optimistic about our current portfolio."
Clearly the old adage, a good hedge fund manager can make money in any market does not fit the qualities of Einhorn. If he hadn't jumped on the Lehman bandwagon with all of his friends he would have lost there as well.
yeah i heard the same thing you did on fast money yesterday.
they where saying it just shows that these evil short sellers are not minting $$$ it as we all think they are.
they make some crappy long bets and some bad shorts. Looks like he got lucky in LEH, but at least he gave everyone 4 months and $50 to get out before 0.
\
they where saying it just shows that these evil short sellers are not minting $$$ it as we all think they are.
they make some crappy long bets and some bad shorts. Looks like he got lucky in LEH, but at least he gave everyone 4 months and $50 to get out before 0.
\
Quote from patchie:
I guess you haven't heard, Einhorn is having a miserable summer. he may have been right on his bet with Lehman but, didn't he lose big time with New Century?
and now this...
GLRE Greenlight Capital reports preliminary Q3 loss/share of $3.30-$3.45 (no estimates) (22.89 )
Co reports prelimary Q3 loss of $3.30-$3.45, no estimates. The company expects to report fully diluted book value per share as of Sep 30, 2008 in the range of $14.05-$14.20. GLRE's investment return for the month ended Sep 30, 2008 was -11.5%. For the qtr ended September 30, 2008 the investment return was -15.9%. Co states, "While our underwriting portfolio continues to perform well, this has been an extraordinarily difficult investment period," said David Einhorn, Chairman of the Board of Directors. "While we believe short term investment results could continue to be challenged, we expect the current dislocations will create good opportunities and remain optimistic about our current portfolio."
Clearly the old adage, a good hedge fund manager can make money in any market does not fit the qualities of Einhorn. If he hadn't jumped on the Lehman bandwagon with all of his friends he would have lost there as well.
wow, where did you find this website. it looks very professional and serious. ive been getting my news for the last 10 years from WSJ, not anymore now that i found deepcapture.
i guess facts just get in the way of your stories, so this is the best you can come up with
i guess facts just get in the way of your stories, so this is the best you can come up with
Quote from flytiger:
http://www.deepcapture.com/the-naked-short-selling-that-toppled-wall-street/#comments
I don't get involved much in the raw data. But I do know the game, and can see it. The guys might ask from time to time, "hey, how does this work in the real world," and I'm happy to help.
But this, and I didn't know it was coming, is the most compelling narrative yet of the demise of Leh, and Bsc. You go ahead and argue the data all you want. But yesterday, the subpoenas went out for the rumors. After reading this, you know what they'll find. And I'm sure the boys turned their stuff over to the Feds. They're like that, you know.
'.......that's the sound of the men, working on the chain - ---- -gang.................."