They Are Vital To our Economy...Not

Quote from kjkent1:

What exactly do you propose as a solution to the current situation?
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I can't propose a solution, so much as a strategy. We need to get "nerds" back in office. The kinds of people who have studied and participated in politics, warfare, history, psychology, biology, economics, diplomacy, philosopy, art, law, sociology, etc. And I really don't care how many degrees the current occupants can wave in my face, their actual behavior is not that of learned and confident men.

The cocksure, toughguy, bible and flag thumping, anti-learning approach is clearly not going to work, ever.

Anyone can pull a trigger. But that other stuff up there, that stuff takes time, effort, but returns so very much more.
 
kent,

You are exactly right. No legislation is needed to authorize the administration to enforce existing law or to protect the Nation's southern border. This President just will not do it however, and I think history will judge him harshly for it. You are correct that his approach is little different from prior administrations, but the difference is we weren't being colonized then. There were local concerntrationsof illegals near the border, but now there are huge communities throughout the country. Kind of makes you wonder if someone planned it that way.
 
Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

kent,

You are exactly right. No legislation is needed to authorize the administration to enforce existing law or to protect the Nation's southern border. This President just will not do it however, and I think history will judge him harshly for it. You are correct that his approach is little different from prior administrations, but the difference is we weren't being colonized then. There were local concerntrationsof illegals near the border, but now there are huge communities throughout the country. Kind of makes you wonder if someone planned it that way.
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Actually, since history is written by the winners, and as you're all asserting the Mexicans are "winning", then Bush will be judged approvingly, by the ruling historians of Mexican ancestry.

It's win/win man.
 
Quote from kjkent1:

Something that both you and Sam should know about the law. The federal government doesn't need to criminalize illegal immigration,

Don't point the finger at anyone other than the person in the White House, because that is the person who is responsible for protecting the Sovereignty of the United States. Congress can declare war and allocate funds, but only the President can order the military to act.

And, our Presidents all simply refuse to do it.
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Thanks for taking the time.


The major thrust of my point: failing to thwart or stop known criminal activity is criminal in itself.

By refusing to enforce duly enacted law which outlaws illegal activity, Bush and Congress are now criminals, by definition.


If you or I were charged with the protection of a communities security and stood idly by while women were raped on the street, would we not be held criminally accountability for failing to act???

OF COURSE WE WOULD!!!


Thats the whole point.

Bush (and Congress) have done NOTHING to ensure our border security for which they are solely charged with its protection! In a time of war no less!!!!


That is borderline treason. You can slice it anyway you like.


The fact of the matter: Americans are so hooked on the phoney romanticism surrounding "The Presidency", they can't admit whats staring them plain in the face.


Americans will continue to take an ass raping on the border until we collectively decide to throw these criminals out of office.


I for one, have no problems with that. And before we get into another phoney left-right debate, they're both dirt. Klinton was a scumbag. The contemporary left and right do nothing but grow Government and steal our freedoms. Just for the record :)
 
Quote from achilles28:

Thanks for taking the time.

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I for one, have no problems with that. And before we get into another phoney left-right debate, they're both dirt. Klinton was a scumbag. The contemporary left and right do nothing but grow Government and steal our freedoms. Just for the record :)
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Great point -- politicians now choose power over perspective. And wait until they get a hold of the Internet -- that's starting already with the crackdown on pornography. Pornography will be just the beginning of the government's infiltration of the Internet.
 
"Something that both you and Sam should know about the law. The federal government doesn't need to criminalize illegal immigration"

something you NEED to know about the law - it's ALREADY criminal. you can't criminalize what is ALREADY criminal

jeeeeeeeez

what they are referring (the feds) to is the suggestion to make it a FELONY

that is the rub

it is already criminal

hth
 
I have read most of this thread and wondered when a real observance would start to emerge. As an African American, I have speculated about many consequences of supposedly having no homeland. I do not embrace Africa with a loving longing to return, I am (and bleed) American! With all its issues, this is my home and I will fight and climb the hurdles, HERE!

But I have also wondered why no one asks these hard working, "best of the peoples" Mexicans who illegally come here the real question. Why not stop leaving Mexico and fix the problems there?

They constantly stream into this country at alarming rates willing to risk death, incarceration, ridicule and many other perils. Yet it does not seem to be a viable option for them to stay at home and clean up their own country. A country which they will gladly wave a flag for and tout allegiance to, once they get here.

Starting, running and growing a country is hard work. Stay in Mexico! Mexico allows voting. Vote the bastids out and make the changes. Don't you understand that America needs to quit absorbing the "BEST" of your floundering countries. The world dynamics have changed since lady liberty was first planted in New York harbor. If we take "All" the best of Mexico, what do you do with the worst that are left behind? Do you not see the unavoidable trouble on that horizon?

Mexico is rich in resources. Mineral assets are in no shortage. Mexicans, stay in Mexico and develop them. You have no ability to claim racial domination by any other peoples as a reason for not achieving in your own country. You are all, MEXICAN!

There is no reason that you can't industrialize yourselves into true world viability. Become the spanish speaking powerhouse of the world. You can teach your children, your citizens with unbounded zeal to be the next level. Stay home and TEACH MEXICANS!

World Trade? Expand your shoe companies, car companies, food processing companies, microchip processing plants, plastic plants, electronics companies, damit promote your own. Go back to Mexico and pay your own folks a real salary and show your peoples how to be economically valuable to the world economy on many fronts. You have been here and know the benefits. Stop whining and GO FIX MEXICO!!

Stop exporting dollars and bringing folks to another land for which they are generally unprepared to cope. Why disadvantage yourselves with such burdens when all you need to do is correct your own issues in your own country? Stop running from the troubles and go employ Mexico!

Understand this, many white American's live for feel good remedies to cover for past ills. To justify short comings in one arena, they will put money and resources out to compensate in another. Many in the African American community are hoping to line up soon for their checks.

America can only offer you perks which appear to be substantial on the surface, but you have your own control rods right there in Mexico that can govern the speed and depth of your successes. You can be your own experiment. Stop running for the border, STAY AND FIX MEXICO!

Your inventors, your developers, your future, they're yours to grow and enhance. Your peoples don't need to enter America's list of accomplished, stay in Mexico and be recognized there. Develop and control your own patents and trademarks/tradenames. Make the peso valuable again! Turn it into a world currency. Give your own peoples some world buying power. STAY IN MEXICO AND BECOME WEALTHY IN YOUR OWN RIGHT!

You have the satisfaction of knowing that you have no third world extremists blasting your peoples away. You have a militarily viable target to your north. Live secure in the knowledge that you are in no one's bombing target (for now). Go back, modernize Mexico!

No other country on the planet can match your shipping access to America combined with labor and weather bonuses. Your whole country can be a frickin' tourist magnet if you get your act together. Go home, deal with the drug lords and gangs, and FIX MEXICO!

Health care? Civil liberties? Education? No one can stop you from fixing your own boats! You have issues with what you are allowed to do here in America? Go back to Mexico and do it the way you'd like then!

America, Americans, Democrats, Republicans, Liberals, EVERYBODY! Let them, MEXICANS, go home and let's pressure them to fix their own homeland! It truly is in our best interest to send them back and let them truly understand what it is to no longer be able take for granted the bloodshed, the cultures, the pains and pleasures that this country went through. They must fix and find their own destiny at home! America should be an option, not the only choice!!

They need to clean home, at home! They can garden, in Mexico. They can work, in Mexico. They can learn, in Mexico! Mexico needs good police, great teachers, dedicated doctors, moral lawyers, and even the worst ~ politicians! They will never fix this problem so long as we open our arms, our checkbooks, our homes! Let these hard working, proud, flag waving peoples go home, to FIX MEXICO!!!

We need to start a movement. We need to tell our politicians and our press that we/they don't need to make America a destination in security for peoples unwilling to fight for their own sovereignty. These people need to stay in their own lands and stand up against their own evils, most of which are home grown.

We need to become a vocal populous and state the case for these weary, tired, persecuted masses that we will buy their goods when they send them. We will champion their causes and welcome their efforts to FIX THEIR HOMELANDS!

MEXICANS, GO HOME AND FIX MEXICO!!!! :)
 
You're not asking much, only that the individual who decides to come here stay home and build a nation instead. Lmao.

Nice post though.
 
In case YOU haven't noticed, that's what they're doing here. Protest marches? Walking out of jobs to show solidarity? Kids leaving classrooms to show that they won't take it anymore! They're even protesting the flying of the American flag as it makes them feel shunned. They wish to be American while draped in the Mexican flag at the marches. Seems to me that they should be flying the Stars & Stripes to show that's what they want to be, doesn't it?

They're demanding that you provide legal representation, employment rights and health services whether or not they are legal, have money or insurance. They demand that you recognize that some of them pay taxes (sales mostly)? They also demand that they deserve recognition in the congress, the workforce, and the courts. Have YOU understood that you need to start to speak, understand and put up signage in Spanish because they don't speak English?

Instead of laughing your a** off, you need to pay attention! It's your tax dollars, city services, health benefits and jobs that are the revenue stream for all of this Mexican Nation Building In America stuff that's going on.

It's your police departments that are providing parade, protest scrutiny. It's your insurance rates that need to be adjusted to reflect needed health supplement costs. It's your tax dollars that need to be redistributed and divided to make sure that their new schools get their fair share.

It's you who need to understand that they can't be expected to play by the rules of immigration because they want satisfaction now. To grow Mexico might take too much bloodshed, time, effort and dedication. And why do it when all you have to do is go to America and save $2,000 so you can pay for admission when they realize that you ain't going home.

I can't wait to hear the outcries when (and if) congress passes the "Pay-To-Stay" bill from McCain. You see you need to give them four to five years to come up with the money. You wouldn't want to cause any hardships. So they'll "ALL" need to be "Automatic Guest Workers" here to earn it. And then they'll need auto-extensions for those who almost have it saved when the time comes to pay. What a joke!

American's only need to be told, "If you send me home I'll be back." Tell them you'll flood their jails and cause world embarrassment. Most Americans can't handle that perception, they have major ego issues. Americans can't even make themselves say the words "Illegal Immigrant" without cringing in the corner for fear of looking bad and sounding callous in the arena of world opinion. Most American's only need to see you're hungry, needing clothes, schooling, money and a chance. Especially if you can be standing at their doorstep.

Chicago estimates that they have approximately 100 Illegal Mexican Immigrants arriving every day. Atlanta is saying similar. Dallas has about that many also. I can only speak to those areas as that's where I live and visit regularly. I am sure that those are not isolated locales and outcomes. :)

Quote from Ricter:

You're not asking much, only that the individual who decides to come here stay home and build a nation instead. Lmao.

Nice post though.
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Quote from whitster:

"Something that both you and Sam should know about the law. The federal government doesn't need to criminalize illegal immigration"

something you NEED to know about the law - it's ALREADY criminal. you can't criminalize what is ALREADY criminal

jeeeeeeeez

what they are referring (the feds) to is the suggestion to make it a FELONY

that is the rub

it is already criminal

hth
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My point is that the government doesn't need criminal laws in order for it to be legal for federal law enforcement/military to stop and search persons at the border, or to protect the border, in general. The Constitution provides inherent authority for the federal government to protect the physical sovereignty of the United States, without enactment of any express penal codes.

The only purpose in criminalizing immigration is to make it possible to arrest an employer for hiring illegal alien workers, or to make it possible to stop and investigate on reasonable suspicion or to arrest and take into custody on probable cause without a warrant issued in advance -- once an illegal has reached the interior of the U.S.

But, we don't need these additional criminal laws if we are protecting our borders, because the vast majority of illegal aliens will be unable to enter.

Since my original proposition was that we should seal the southern border and then attempt to determine who of the illegal aliens already living in the U.S. should be permitted to stay and who should be deported, thus there is no need for the additional criminal laws.

Anyone who is already here could apply for citizenship and be permitted or denied, depending upon whatever rules the government decided to set up.

Once again, the point is that the government does not need any laws beyond the Constitution itself, to restrain a person from entering the U.S., or to deport them once they have unlawfully gained entry. The only law which is required is one which states that it is unlawful to enter the U.S. without permission from the government -- and that law has been on the books since forever.
 
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