They Are Vital To our Economy...Not

[Sam123]

Quote from kjkent1:

So, your attempting to lay the immigration problem at the hands of liberals is simply wrong. The problem is the result of the entire US Governmental establishment, aiding and abetting the Mexican Government to allow two completely different sets of laws to operate in Mexico. If the same situation were to exist in the USA, we would describe it as "separate but equal." (Brown v. Board of Education).

Maybe you like "separate but equal" and you'd like to see it reestablished in the USA. If you're wondering what it would look like, the example is just South of the Border -- in Mexico.

That’s baloney. The Mexican government has always been corrupt. America has always outperformed Mexico. We can wall-off our borders tomorrow and the corruption in Mexico will remain the same. America does not “aid and abet” the perpetual existence of a corrupt Mexican government just because people crossing the border would otherwise be “revolutionaries” in Mexico and “stop the corruption.” It’s pure nonsense. If anything, there would be a Leftist revolution, and in the end the government would still be corrupt and you would still have millions of Mexicans treated like “surfs” like in Cuba. It’s the way of their culture, and their governance is a product of their culture, not U.S. policy.

The economic disparity between our nations explains why Mexicans have always crossed the border. Sure. But it doesn’t explain the stampede. You can say Bush’s amnesty and businesses hiring illegals contribute to the problem, but it was the Liberals who blocked Prop 187, and it’s the Liberals who promoted bilingualism that made this problem unstoppable. The American people tried to stop it by denying illegals public services, education, healthcare and a cozy Spanish-speaking environment. How can they stop it now, when the laws say everything in unconstitutional?

If the Liberals failed to block the voter, similar propositions would spring up in other states. And only Mexicans who want to become Americans would cross the border, and all the rest would stay home. The border crossings would fall to reasonable levels and we wouldn’t have this organized uprising by Leftist Latino nationals. And we wouldn’t have 12 million illegals both parties are pandering to.

 

[Ricter]

Quote from Sam123:



The economic disparity between our nations explains why Mexicans have always crossed the border. Sure. But it doesn’t explain the stampede.

Television and, to some extent probably, the internet, explain why it's a stampede. See Also "Marketing".

 

[dddooo]

Quote from kissanmakeup:

but let me ask you a question, if you r against illegals, what solution do you propose?
their farming communities along the borders were destroyed after the introduction of NAFTA and after the u.s. dumped their heavily subsidized produce in their back yard. what r u proposing to do with all of these farmers.

NAFTA has been particularly bad for working people in both countries, I am against illegal immigration but I am also against NAFTA and other free trade agreements with 3rd world countries which have been a bonanza for american big business and no one else.

 

[kjkent1]

Quote from Sam123:

That’s baloney. The Mexican government has always been corrupt. America has always outperformed Mexico. We can wall-off our borders tomorrow and the corruption in Mexico will remain the same. America does not “aid and abet” the perpetual existence of a corrupt Mexican government just because people crossing the border would otherwise be “revolutionaries” in Mexico and “stop the corruption.” It’s pure nonsense. If anything, there would be a Leftist revolution, and in the end the government would still be corrupt and you would still have millions of Mexicans treated like “surfs” like in Cuba. It’s the way of their culture, and their governance is a product of their culture, not U.S. policy.

The economic disparity between our nations explains why Mexicans have always crossed the border. Sure. But it doesn’t explain the stampede. You can say Bush’s amnesty and businesses hiring illegals contribute to the problem, but it was the Liberals who blocked Prop 187, and it’s the Liberals who promoted bilingualism that made this problem unstoppable. The American people tried to stop it by denying illegals public services, education, healthcare and a cozy Spanish-speaking environment. How can they stop it now, when the laws say everything in unconstitutional?

If the Liberals failed to block the voter, similar propositions would spring up in other states. And only Mexicans who want to become Americans would cross the border, and all the rest would stay home. The border crossings would fall to reasonable levels and we wouldn’t have this organized uprising by Leftist Latino nationals. And we wouldn’t have 12 million illegals both parties are pandering to.

You want to place the blame for our failed immigration policy on the liberals and you call my analysis pure nonsense. Well, I just heard Senator Jeff Sessions of Alabama, an extremely conservative republican, state unequivocally on the Senate floor today, that every President and Congress, including the conservative icon Ronald Reagan, is responsible for the present failed immigration policy.

The blunt fact is that while Congress has made laws and allocated money for immigration enforcement, even in 1986 when Reagan's amnesty bill was passed, NONE of the Presidential administrations since, ever actually appropriated money to enforce the laws, and none of those administrations enforced the laws themselves.

Sessions went on to state that this new proposed bill is a joke and that it is nothing more than a new amnesty law with no teeth and no likelihood whatsoever of actually changing anything.

So, if you're asking me whose version of reality has more credibility, Senator Sessions or yours, then I pick Jeff Sessions.

You really need to spend some serious time in Mexico and San Diego or some other border towns, to get a feel for what's really going on here, because you are not seeing the reality of the situation. And, before you ask, I lived in Southern California for 42 years, and I had already visited Tijuana, Mexico City and Acapulco by my 14th birthday, so I have considerable personal experience with the way that this whole operation works.

The Mexican authorities use the U.S. as a relief valve for their malcontents, and the U.S. has permitted it, due to a combination of (1) bleeding heart liberals who want to keep America as the melting pot of the world, and who think that we can somehow help the Mexican refugees by providing them with a safe harbor, and (2) businessperson conservatives who look at cheap labor as a means to their own maintenance of power and profit. That is the whole cha cha. Everything else is a smokescreen.

Don't be suckered into believing that this is all about some liberal conspiracy, because it ain't.

 

[Ricter]

Quote from kjkent1:


The Mexican authorities use the U.S. as a relief valve for their malcontents, and the U.S. has permitted it, due to a combination of (1) bleeding heart liberals who want to keep America as the melting pot of the world, and who think that we can somehow help the Mexican refugees by providing them with a safe harbor, and (2) businessperson conservatives who look at cheap labor as a means to their own maintenance of power and profit...

I'd just like to mention that some businesspersons using cheap labor may also be doing it for the benefit to the stockholders--their job in other words.

 

[kjkent1]

Quote from Ricter:

I'd just like to mention that some businesspersons using cheap labor may also be doing it for the benefit to the stockholders--their job in other words.

OK, fine. Let em' all in and let's see what happens to the U.S. I have a hunch pretty soon our nation will start to look exactly like our southern neighbor. But, I could be wrong.

 

[Ricter]

Hey, us looking like them was going to be the ultimate result of capital chasing cheap labor overseas and consumers chasing the lowest price anyway. Free markets = leveling.

 

[achilles28]

Quote from kjkent1:



Ted and George do have one thing in common: they're both filthy rich. So, I'm guessing that they're both protecting their wealth and the wealth of some undisclosed constituents.

What is it with Americans and their naive presumptions of incorruptible leadership?

Plutocrats OWN this country and its elected officials.

The entire constitution speaks to humanities inherent evil yet Americans are aghast when Bush and Ted Kennedy team up to rape America.

Surprised?


The educated and accomplished in this country have bought into this huge lie that emotions have no place in reasoned debate; that emotional appeals are a stumbling block to creditability - worthy of scorn from a smug cast of 'enlightened' gatekeepers.

We need to realise, once our duckies are lined up and the weighted facts have yielded an undeniable conclusion, it is OK TO GET EMOTIONAL ABOUT THE ISSUE!!!


Emotion - coupled with an air-tight defense - is the most POWERFUL tool we have to mobilize ourselves and neighbors into action!

This is why our shitbag leadership invariably paint their impassioned opponents as 'hysterical zealots' and 'unreasonable critics' even when the preponderance of FACTS validate their outrage - to preempt us psychologically before we have a chance to get EMOTIONAL about the issue!!


See how that works? Subtle mind control (propaganda).


This is why leadership always, always calls for 'calm' and 'rational compromise'.

To ensure their opponents fall squarely outside the sphere of 'credible' thought - and those inside are sufficiently castrated to render their opposition ineffectual.


This is why we will all loiter around in bewilderment as Congress continues to FUCK US UP THE ASS and the border will STAY WIDE OPEN.


Because leadership has made us believe society at large will regard us as 'irrational kooks' if we vehemently and EMOTIONALLY oppose open borders.

Therefore, no group will rally in sufficient numbers to effect change simply because they fear a broader societal backlash -- a 'backlash' that is nothing more than cheap conjury by the Leadership itself!

You see?


They tell America what to think.

Then we assume America believes it.

Now, we silence our EMOTIONAL protest in fear of being branded a 'kook' by the 'silent majority' that didn't exist in the first place!!


They are playing us against each other.

Divide and conquer.



How do I know?

Where in this new "Immigration Bill" is the BILLIONS in appropriations for the border wall and staff to man it???

NOWHERE.

WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dis]

Quote from Ricter:

Labor should be as free to cross borders as capital.

Welfare leeches should be as free to cross borders as labor.

Criminals should be as free to cross borders as welfare leeches.

Terrorists should be as free to cross borders as criminals .

Taxpayers should be obligated to foot the bill for all of the above.

 

[kjkent1]

Quote from achilles28:

What is it with Americans and their naive presumptions of incorruptible leadership?

Plutocrats OWN this country and its elected officials.

The entire constitution speaks to humanities inherent evil yet Americans are aghast when Bush and Ted Kennedy team up to rape America.

Surprised?

At the consensus of the wealthy to exploit the poor -- not at all.

But, once we're all in the "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!" mood, what do you suggest that we do to resolve the problem of this ongoing exploitation?