These guys are nothing but thieves and gamblers

I think those guys who lost real BIG, like Hunter, Leeson, and the two chinese and japanese metal traders ( yes, the chinese one who disappeared without even closing his copper or something 1 billion loss position ). Why are they still holding such large positions?

The interest in having large assets is that you can diversify a lot. What for do they bet a big part of their assets on one single idea?

When my account grows, I don't trade one more future, I add a new system on a new market. That's how you get consistent. When investing in hedge funds, we have to know how they are trading and invest only in large diversified automatized quantitative or arbitrage funds.
 
Quote from bsmeter:

Try trading real money for a change. Only then will you learn how the American markets work.
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So you completely dismiss out of hand that there could be market manipulation in order to get more voters for midterm?

I am not saying that I believe in it, but will definitely consider such possibility.

redduke
 
Quote from madmunny:

actually from what top energy traders say is that these traders had the right idea.....they just made their position to big and when they went to exit to take their profit they were so big that their sell off caused others to join their selling bandwagon and that extra selling cause their winning position and money trade turn into a massive loser........thats how they lost so much money so fast...their 1.5 billion dollar profit turned into a 3-4 billion dollar loss

so they were neither thieves and gamblers....they just made a mistake when they made their position to big.

Making a mistake makes you neither a thief or gambler...just means you made a mistake....we have all done it...they just made a big one.
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Making a rookie mistake that *every* piker, let alone professional trader, is aware of; when you are managing 9 billion of other people's money...sorry but that's total cluelessness at best, and criminal negligence and fraud at worst. If you tell investors you have risk control, and then trade like that - then you flat out lied to them.
 
Amaranth might not be the only firm that lost money.

Think about where this might lead.

Could this become another Long Term Capital Management (LTCM) type event? SP500 is near the high value for the year, could a bear phase follow that lasts about 3 months? I recall the LTCM event followed or accompanied a stock market selloff beginning about September 1998 and lasting until about December 1998.

What markets to watch now?
 
Quote from illiquid:

Here's the thing that gets me: do the "professional" traders at most of these 8,000 funds really know how to trade (aka, manage a position)?
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First at all, how do the investors know whether a fund is really carrying out the daily trading activities it says?

Q

http://www.cftc.gov/opa/enf06/opa5226-06.htm

As alleged in the complaint, the defendants accepted money from individual customers and placed the money in an account in the name of King Investments (the Corporate Account). After receiving money from individual customers, the complaint alleges that the defendants did not invest the money in commodity futures trading, but left the money in the Corporate Account where King could access it for his personal use on items including his home mortgage and health care expenses.

UQ
 
How does this scenario sound?

Panicky fund executives everywhere are looking at trader positions for big exposure to natural gas. Positions are being reduced not for trading reasons but for political / hysteria reasons. Natural Gas contracts get sold and traders do not buy much gas because it is a tough sell to management. Prices fall for a while, become "oversold" then October begins, New York city gets a cold spell and needs heat. Then gas price rises a lot because people realize winter is a real thing that happens to places like New York.
 
I think Bill from nodoodahs put it best:

4. Trading contracts is a less-than-zero-sum game. Every contract has a buyer, seller, and broker. Somebody made a tidy profit on that move. Every dollar that Amaranth “lost” should be accounted for, because they didn’t lose any money, they transferred that money to other hands when they bought contracts, and they got money when they sold contracts, although they sold low and bought high. Somebody won that trade, and it wasn’t Amaranth.
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Quote from bsmeter:

It's Erection time in America. After the elections Oil prices go straight back up until the next appointed leader is placed into position.

Wll you fools never learn?!! :D
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How many contracts are you long?
 
***Important*** I know without a shadow of a doubt when oil is going down. I start receiving phone calls from brokers trying to sell me on oil and what a great buy it is. Every single time I get the call oil drops significantly within a week.
 
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