There you have it!

Fractals 'R Us · Mar 25, 2013

Quote from wjk:

I've said before, and I'll say again...use education in these matters, not force of law.

And what about the uneducable and the health bill we are presented with?

Scataphagos · Mar 25, 2013

Quote from wjk:

"... Do you (Ricter) think gov knows best? Do you believe that in your own life the gov knows whats best for you..."

Our genius Founders thought otherwise. They were ADAMANTLY against our ever having a large and powerful Federal Government... even tried to write the Constitution and Bill of Rights so that such government would be impossible... Yet, here we are... ??

Ricter · Mar 25, 2013

Quote from Scataphagos:

Our genius Founders thought otherwise. They were ADAMANTLY against our ever having a large and powerful Federal Government... even tried to write the Constitution and Bill of Rights so that such government would be impossible... Yet, here we are... ??

But they were not opposed to ALL government. So it follows that even they thought, under some circumstances, government is the better solution.

pspr · Mar 25, 2013

Quote from Ricter:

But they were not opposed to ALL government. So it follows that even they thought, under some circumstances, government is the better solution.

They spelled it out, for the common defense, etc. Anything not spelled out in the Constitution the federal government was supposed to stay out of.

Politicians have manipulated the meanings of several clauses to circumvent that restriction and convinced the courts to go along with them. The Interstate Commerce clause is one that has routinely been exploited.

LEAPup · Mar 25, 2013

Quote from Scataphagos:

Our genius Founders thought otherwise. They were ADAMANTLY against our ever having a large and powerful Federal Government... even tried to write the Constitution and Bill of Rights so that such government would be impossible... Yet, here we are... ??

And what you typed should be the headline of the nightly news. Will it be? Don't think so. The MSM is NO QUESTION an enemy to the US with their sick love affair with Onazi and his Communist buddies. This tyrannical gubment's $$$$$$$$ talks, and sadly, we're seeing the results unfold before our eyes.

I've gotta say, if I were a demoNazi, I'd do the same thing. Give the sheeple a little something, then take MUCH more away from them before they're sheared. :mad:

PiggyBank · Mar 25, 2013

Quote from Ricter:

We now "have" nothing we didn't already know. Laws are an "infringement" on our freedoms.

Good laws are not an infringement of anyone's freedom. To say "you can't commit murder", is not violating anyone's freedom because murder itself is an 'infringement' on another person's freedom. On the flip side, saying "you can't smoke that blunt", or "you can't drink that soda", or "you can't sell your vag", IS an infringement on the freedom of those individuals. The phrase "Your freedom ends where the next person's begins" or however it goes, is a good test for any law imo.

PiggyBank · Mar 25, 2013

Quote from pspr:

They spelled it out, for the common defense, etc. Anything not spelled out in the Constitution the federal government was supposed to stay out of.

Politicians have manipulated the meanings of several clauses to circumvent that restriction and convinced the courts to go along with them. The Interstate Commerce clause is one that has routinely been exploited.

+1

Absolutely right, and no matter how it gets 'interpreted' today, 200+ years later, if they meant for it to be that way, it wouldn't have taken this long for us to know. lol

"On every question of construction (of the Constitution) let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed." - Thomas Jefferson

pspr · Mar 25, 2013

Quote from PiggyBank:

"On every question of construction (of the Constitution) let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed." - Thomas Jefferson

If one could only tattoo that quote on the foreheads of each Supreme Court Justice.

PiggyBank · Mar 25, 2013

Quote from pspr:

If one could only tattoo that quote on the foreheads of each Supreme Court Justice.

I have no faith in the SC at all. They've allowed SS, Medicare, numerous social programs, and now obamacare to become law. The federal govt has no authority to be running any of these things, not to mention, forcing compliance.

RCG Trader · Mar 25, 2013

Quote from wjk:

Do we live in a democracy or a republic? There is a difference, as you know.

Back to the thread. Do you want to be in charge of your own life or have someone else in charge, a politician(s) no less?

I have no problem with limited gov. I do have a problem with politicians like bloomberg acting like a nanny. He doesn't know what's best for you or me, he just thinks he does. And he's not alone in the political world. That was my original point.

You know wjk, you are a reasoned fellow. Does gov always know best.

Yes.

Gov is a collection of the people it governs in a democratic society.

If the gov does something, and the people accede to it, then that is what the people want. No?