There seems to be very few Big Indepentdent Traders.....

Quote from Steve Tvardek:

I was at a wedding for my girlfriend's family friend in March and I was seated at a table with a lot of random couples. Turns out the guy next to me, he was 30ish, trades in the Nat Gas pit and is good friends with Bolling. He told me Eric is transitioning out of the pits and into being in front of the camera fulltime. This guy told me Bolling says he getting a little old for the pit, its more a younger guys game, plus he is pretty comfortable as is. Thats what he told me, not sure how accurate its is. He also told me that he was a referee for boys soccer about 6 years ago and was the referee for the game in which Marc Fishers son was playing. They had a conversation after the game and Fisher apparently saw something in him and decided to financially back this guy to get him started and now this guy does very well. It was definitely a cool night chatting with him about what he does.
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Wow, that's interesting. I'd figure now that Bolling is a media star and has all kinds of connections, he'd start a fund that could easily attract 100mill+ AUM. He could hire traders better than him, play a very conservative game and collect millions on fees alone.
I think this is what Covner, Cohen, Soros, and the rest had in mind. Considering the average hedge fund is leveraged 5-8 times, if there are returning an average of 9% a year then their unleveraged return could be a measly 2-3% a year - just very easy high probability trades perhaps.
I have a lot more respect for independent traders now. But if you have the connections to attract large AUM, then its a pretty tough proposition to decline - easy money.
 
A lot of "traders/investors" make a lot of money....they are just not "scalpers" as seem so common on ET...

Bill O'Neill has a fairly large following of investors who have made a ton of money over the years following some form of "CANSLIM"

I think a small trader/investor with $250,000-$500,000 cash can do very well in the market....consistent singles/doubles over the years......stay focused on your style.....good money management...etc etc

I think everyone uses Buffett, Soros, Livermore etc as "examples" to follow: BAD CHOICE, imho....Buffett is NOT a trader....most of what Livermore did is illegal under todays laws..

If you are "making" 8% on money.....CD's will pay 5%....you are risking a lot of money to "make" 3%....Greenspan spoke of this as too low of a risk premium....

If you think a hedge fund is he way to go read Barton Biggs' book "HedgeHog".....this guy is about as "connected" as anyone can be.....wasn't so easy to raise money for him.....as he says..20% of nothing is nothing.....good read


SteveD
 
Just a follow up to Steve above. IMO, those who are sticking to scalping are going to have a much tougher time going forward. The games have changed, and we have to change with them. My "scalpers" stand at about 10% these days (a few more if you count the automated scalping programs that run while you're focusing on other strategies, of course). Now, of course we all "scalp" at times, but the primary focus is on other strategies.

Quite a growth in position traders (we call it portfolio management with frequency added). Hedging strategies of course. Automation is spreading fast as well, even to the new guys.

All the best,

Don
 
Hi all,

What does OPM stand for? And, if it stands for a strategy....what is that strategy?

Thanks, see below. This is from the original post on this thread.


Covner, PTJ, Cohen, VN, Soros, and just about every single market wizard out there....the greatest and biggest traders manage OPM. I doubt there are any guys out there trading from home that have mode over 100mil from the market.
Why is that? Its not like nowadays you even need OPM to 'size up' - there are plenty of leveraged products that you can trade and plenty of IBs willing to extent credit.
Who do you think is the biggest trader out there not managing OPM?
 
I know of one. He lives on Carbon Beach in Malibu and pulled $50 million out of the markets each of the last 3 years. No firm affiliation, trades his own account funded with a $2 million inheritance in 1993. Trades from home with a T1 and one screen. I've heard from an friend that he made nearly $70mm this year.
 
The trading business is pretty weird.

In other professions, you have a gauge of who's successful and who isn't.

Take the world of basketball. On the entire planet, you know who's great and who isn't. You know Jordans skill vs some guy down the street playing pick up. You know, roughly, where everyone is.

Or take classical music, public speaking, or anything.

I always wonder about these "experts" and market commentators who say no one can beat the market. But how do you know that for a fact? There might be a 1,000 guys who have beaten the market for the last 10 years, and they've retired or stayed private. They might have cashed in for something else.

I'd put Jimmy Rogers on the list of big independent traders. It's impossible to say what he's worth. But if he retired in 1980 with $15 or $20 mil, and he's only earned market rates since then, that's 9 figures he's taken out of the market.
 
Quote from SteveD:

think everyone uses Buffett, Soros, Livermore etc as "examples" to follow: BAD CHOICE, imho....Buffett is NOT a trader...
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Maybe not anymore (possibly due to size). Not so in the 60s. I often see the famed "investment partnership" from the early days. This was a hedge fund and Buffet was actively trading at that time while size was small enough. If he still were using the same style today he would probably be called an arbitrage trader today.
 
Quote from SteveD:

I think everyone uses Buffett, Soros, Livermore etc as "examples" to follow: BAD CHOICE, imho....Buffett is NOT a trader....most of what Livermore did is illegal under todays laws..
SteveD
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Why do you say Buffet Is Not a Trader?

Don't you know that's how he has made most of his money?

He trades options regularly on the underlying stocks that he
holds onto forever. He may buy and hold the stock forever but
his options trading has been his cashflow for years.

Is that not a trader, I ask you?

Think Again.
 
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