There is now no difference between Fox News and the Trump Administration
- Thread starter UsualName
- Start date
2. the founding fathers were classical liberals in ideas regardless of whether you wish to call them classical liberal.
hence even Noam Chomsky says today's conservatives are most like the founding fathers. In short factually you are dead ass wrong... you know that today's conservatives state we should follow the constitution. That we love freedom. They we desire decentralized less powerful central govt. you are making a deliberately false argument.
2. Regarding the IRS... the founding father did not worry about the IRS because the IRS did not exist. In part because a federal income tax was considered an unlawful taking of a persons property. A federal income tax was even ruled unconstitutional in 1895.
In short factually you are dead ass wrong... you know that todays conservatives state we should follow the constitution. That we love freedom. They we desire decentralized less powerful central govt. Todays' conservatives actually promote the ideals of the founding fathers all the time. you argument is knowingly false.
https://www.irs.gov/about-irs/brief-history-of-irs
Origin
The roots of IRS go back to the Civil War when President Lincoln and Congress, in 1862, created the position of commissioner of Internal Revenue and enacted an income tax to pay war expenses. The income tax was repealed 10 years later. Congress revived the income tax in 1894, but the Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional the following year.
16th Amendment
In 1913, Wyoming ratified the 16th Amendment, providing the three-quarter majority of states necessary to amend the Constitution. The 16th Amendment gave Congress the authority to enact an income tax. That same year, the first Form 1040 appeared after Congress levied a 1 percent tax on net personal incomes above $3,000 with a 6 percent surtax on incomes of more than $500,000.
In 1918, during World War I, the top rate of the income tax rose to 77 percent to help finance the war effort. It dropped sharply in the post-war years, down to 24 percent in 1929, and rose again during the Depression. During World War II, Congress introduced payroll withholding and quarterly tax payments.
In the 50s, the agency was reorganized to replace a patronage system with career, professional employees. The Bureau of Internal Revenue name was changed to the Internal Revenue Service. Only the IRS commissioner and chief counsel are selected by the president and confirmed by the Senate.
Today’s IRS Organization
The IRS Restructuring and Reform Act of 1998 prompted the most comprehensive reorganization and modernization of IRS in nearly half a century. The IRS reorganized itself to closely resemble the private sector model of organizing around customers with similar needs.
hence even Noam Chomsky says today's conservatives are most like the founding fathers. In short factually you are dead ass wrong... you know that today's conservatives state we should follow the constitution. That we love freedom. They we desire decentralized less powerful central govt. you are making a deliberately false argument.
2. Regarding the IRS... the founding father did not worry about the IRS because the IRS did not exist. In part because a federal income tax was considered an unlawful taking of a persons property. A federal income tax was even ruled unconstitutional in 1895.
In short factually you are dead ass wrong... you know that todays conservatives state we should follow the constitution. That we love freedom. They we desire decentralized less powerful central govt. Todays' conservatives actually promote the ideals of the founding fathers all the time. you argument is knowingly false.
https://www.irs.gov/about-irs/brief-history-of-irs
Origin
The roots of IRS go back to the Civil War when President Lincoln and Congress, in 1862, created the position of commissioner of Internal Revenue and enacted an income tax to pay war expenses. The income tax was repealed 10 years later. Congress revived the income tax in 1894, but the Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional the following year.
16th Amendment
In 1913, Wyoming ratified the 16th Amendment, providing the three-quarter majority of states necessary to amend the Constitution. The 16th Amendment gave Congress the authority to enact an income tax. That same year, the first Form 1040 appeared after Congress levied a 1 percent tax on net personal incomes above $3,000 with a 6 percent surtax on incomes of more than $500,000.
In 1918, during World War I, the top rate of the income tax rose to 77 percent to help finance the war effort. It dropped sharply in the post-war years, down to 24 percent in 1929, and rose again during the Depression. During World War II, Congress introduced payroll withholding and quarterly tax payments.
- 1913 Form 1040 (PDF 126KB, 4 pages, including instructions)
In the 50s, the agency was reorganized to replace a patronage system with career, professional employees. The Bureau of Internal Revenue name was changed to the Internal Revenue Service. Only the IRS commissioner and chief counsel are selected by the president and confirmed by the Senate.
Today’s IRS Organization
The IRS Restructuring and Reform Act of 1998 prompted the most comprehensive reorganization and modernization of IRS in nearly half a century. The IRS reorganized itself to closely resemble the private sector model of organizing around customers with similar needs.
Last edited:
Always the same with you. Let’s be clear which ideology wants to impose religion in the government and on the people - conservatives. Which is in a constant war with the free press and under Trump has sought to silence and demonize the press - conservatives. Which party opposes free and fair elections and fights to keep people from voting for their representative government- conservatives.
Now you right wingers often mistaken the size of government with the power of government. The founders were more concerned with the government having power over people and invading their privacy. So tell me which ideology wants to check people’s identities for traffic stops and which ideology authorized recording all phone conversations- that’s right conservatives.
It gets better, which ideology wants to tell women what to do with their bodies - you guessed it, conservatives.
I have a special note on this one, abortion was around during the Revolution and no laws were passed outlawing it.
I could keep going but you are completely mixed up. If want to be a liberal, then be a liberal but don’t try to make the founders conservatives. They were radically liberal for their time.
Nor did they need to worry about being prosecuted by the DOJ. It did not even exist until after the Civil War, and the FBI even later, into the 1900's.
The lefties argue that when the President fires Comey or something that he is messing with some constitutionally derived entity. He is not. The President of the United States is the chief law enforcement officer of the United States per his powers directly derived from the Constitution and per his constitutional duty to see that the laws of the united states are faithfully executed. Congress may create law enforcement related agencies and functions to add to the president's powers but they cannot take away the presidents original powers in so doing. Those powers remain and are not dependent on the approval of Congress.
As I said, we had a full century of prosecutions and investigations being run by or ultimately overseen by the President before the Justice Department even came along. And I am not arguing that we return to the earlier days, but neither should others be arguing that the president is messing with God or the Constitution if a crisis arises within the Justice Department and he needs to more vigorously assert his own powers. Several of those crises are in progress right now.
Exactly right. If Trump does not use his power to set up an independent commission to investigate the DOJ and the FBI and the collusion with the former Administration... he is a feckless fool.
No you confuse protecting your right to be free from govt with imposing religion. The supreme court just told you an artist is free to not bake a gay cake and follow his religion. An artist should be free to crate whatever cake he wants. he can oppose religion if he wishes. That is what classical libertarians believe that is what conservative justices found. It was not imposing religion... or being anti gay rights,.. it was protecting freedom from govt.
The free press is free to do what it wishes... and trump is free to call them fake or be sued for slander. That his freedom. No conservatives is for shutting down the first amendement.
Its you lefties that argue for that. This is a truly disingenuous argument from you. You know we are for the first amendment and freedom of the press. And you just saw the left is talking about cutting back on the first amendment.
Conservatives are the ones voting to make sure the election process has integrity. That is why we need to make sure only citizens vote. I am sure the founding fathers did not want Brits voting... after creating American citizenship. This is not a real argument either. Most of the voting deceptions come from the democratic machine. In CA you don't even have to prove you identity when you vote. Its is and unfortunate joke. are write in systme is rife with potential for fraud by the millions.
Many conservatives who are frequently also libertarians are gravely concerned about privacy. I don't see you new lefties showing any concerns for privacy if it was done by the Obama administration. The deep state is establishment. Its mostly democrats and establishment republicans. Establishment republicans don't give a shit about true conservatism... they and the democrats agree on mostly the same things. Don't confuse republicans in congress with conservatives.
Abortion is not a conservative vs libertarian social issue.
its a rights of the baby vs the rights of the mom
and the rights of the stats vs the rights of the Federal Govt issue.
Its my view and the view of conservative readers of the constitution that the issue is properly left for the states. Its barbaric that you would think Killing babies is makes you more liberal than somone who believes in the human rights of the baby.
The only argument you really have a bit of a point on is having border checkpoints.
That issue is filled with clashes of basic rights. The right to move freely if you are a citzen vs the social contract with the govt to keep the country safe and free from invaders and terrorists. among many other clashes.
except for that one issue you seem to have everyone one of your arguments assbackwards.
The free press is free to do what it wishes... and trump is free to call them fake or be sued for slander. That his freedom. No conservatives is for shutting down the first amendement.
Its you lefties that argue for that. This is a truly disingenuous argument from you. You know we are for the first amendment and freedom of the press. And you just saw the left is talking about cutting back on the first amendment.
Conservatives are the ones voting to make sure the election process has integrity. That is why we need to make sure only citizens vote. I am sure the founding fathers did not want Brits voting... after creating American citizenship. This is not a real argument either. Most of the voting deceptions come from the democratic machine. In CA you don't even have to prove you identity when you vote. Its is and unfortunate joke. are write in systme is rife with potential for fraud by the millions.
Many conservatives who are frequently also libertarians are gravely concerned about privacy. I don't see you new lefties showing any concerns for privacy if it was done by the Obama administration. The deep state is establishment. Its mostly democrats and establishment republicans. Establishment republicans don't give a shit about true conservatism... they and the democrats agree on mostly the same things. Don't confuse republicans in congress with conservatives.
Abortion is not a conservative vs libertarian social issue.
its a rights of the baby vs the rights of the mom
and the rights of the stats vs the rights of the Federal Govt issue.
Its my view and the view of conservative readers of the constitution that the issue is properly left for the states. Its barbaric that you would think Killing babies is makes you more liberal than somone who believes in the human rights of the baby.
The only argument you really have a bit of a point on is having border checkpoints.
That issue is filled with clashes of basic rights. The right to move freely if you are a citzen vs the social contract with the govt to keep the country safe and free from invaders and terrorists. among many other clashes.
except for that one issue you seem to have everyone one of your arguments assbackwards.
Last edited:
The Supreme Court did not say you can deny gay people services, they simply admonished the Colorado civil rights board for its treatment of the bakers religious beliefs.
Your misinterpretation of that Supreme Court ruling explains your misunderstanding of the founding values of this country.
You are trying to claim that CNN does not cover Trump's rallies live. CNN just had a Trump rally on live the other day. In fact the internet was making fun of the crowd mocking the CNN reporters and news team both before and after the rally.
Your non-factual meme above earns -
In regard to it being decided by the states,
With the possible exception of the ultra-late born-alive babies who are allowed to die because the abortion failed. You know. As in the state of Illinois and the law supported by Obama when he was a senator and the nurses testified that they were required to hold the babies until they died. Grim.
Last I knew- regardless of what their little plan was or is- a baby born alive is also known as A UNITED STATES CITIZEN ENTITLED TO EQUAL PROTECTION OF THE LAW. So there are federal implications for attempting to abort a live U.S. citizen that cannot be abridged by the states.
Couldn't care less about the rights of the mother at that late stage. She should have figured that out months ago before she got the new boyfriend who doesnt like kids.