Theological discusssion

[Free Thinker]

Quote from Yannis:

Religion is not here to tell you how to build stuff or propose elaborate elementary particle theories. Its goal is to guide you on how to live.

have you stoned your children yet for talking back?
Deuteronomy 21:18-21

"If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death."

 

[Ricter]

Quote from stu:

...The evidence isn't being defined by science , it's observed whether or not verified evidence fits with the facts. ...

That is begging the question. "Verifiable" is a chosen premise.

 

[Yannis]

Quote from Free Thinker:

have you stoned your children yet for talking back? Deuteronomy 21:18-21...

I don't know or understand what society was like at that time, when the Germans lived on trees and the Egyptians buried you alive for kicking a cat. What I believe is that this whole framework was revisited and perfected about 2,000 years ago, you probably know it already.

For example, take a look at Matthew Ch5: " “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. "

 

[bigarrow]

What's the best way to stop a theological discussion, politely. The HVAC contractor on my job is bugging the shit out of me with his Jesus talks. I've been polite and told him I don't believe I'm not going to believe what he believes and still he keeps trying to save my soul. I like the guy, but damn enough is enough. They need to have a class in church on when to back off and leave people alone, being friendly isn't an invitation to listen to a sermon. To be fair this doesn't happen often, most people can read body language and can tell if you want to listen or not, well, old people can't but I have a lot more patience with the elderly.

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from Yannis:

I don't know or understand what society was like at that time, when the Germans lived on trees and the Egyptians buried you alive for kicking a cat. This whole framework was perfected about 2,000 years ago, you probably know it already.

For example, take a look at Matthew Ch5: " “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. "

i find it interesting that bible thumpers fight so hard to get the ten commandments displayed in schools. where are the ten commandments found in the bible? the same place as the laws about stoning your children.

 

[Yannis]

Quote from bigarrow:

What's the best way to stop a theological discussion, politely...

Now you know what I felt back in graduate school when friendly scientists were trying to save my scientific soul. Or when my father in law tells me for the millionth time that the Dems have the best plans for the country... Just tell the guy you are not interested in religion and he'll stop. Or else, fire him, lovingly of course

 

[Yannis]

Quote from Free Thinker:

i find it interesting that bible thumpers fight so hard to get the ten commandments displayed in schools. where are the ten commandments found in the bible? the same place as the laws about stoning your children.

You miss the point. Religious scholars know that every part of scripture has its place: primary, secondary, tertiary, etc. The 10 Commandments is a lot more important than Deuteronomy or Proverbs or Kings etc where history and politics are discussed, Not to mention the chapters where the amount of lumber needed for the temple is listed. The Bible is both a religious and social/historic document, with plenty of content and structural detail to be understood differently.

 

[bigarrow]

Quote from Yannis:

Now you know what I felt back in graduate school when friendly scientists were trying to save my scientific soul. Or when my father in law tells me for the millionth time that the Dems have the best plans for the country... Just tell the guy you are not interested in religion and he'll stop. Or else, fire him, lovingly of course

Can't fire him, we're both hired by the same company, I'm roofing the complex and he's taking care of the A/C units on the roof. Besides I need him to finish so I can get the hell home and see my grandkids. He is a nice guy though. For me not believing in god is the same as not believing in aliens or bigfoot or people living in the core of the earth, it's not an emotional thing and I never think about it unless somebody brings it up. But for the other side I have to be careful what I say, because anything I say they can take it personal, because their religion is very personal. And life is tough enough without making someone fell bad, thus I avoid almost all personal discussions about religion.

 

[stu]

Quote from Ricter:

That is begging the question. "Verifiable" is a chosen premise.

No it isn’t . Come on Ricter you can do better than dancing around with some silly semantics , or then again perhaps you really can’t.

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from Yannis:

You miss the point. Religious scholars know that every part of scripture has its place: primary, secondary, tertiary, etc. The 10 Commandments is a lot more important than Deuteronomy or Proverbs or Kings etc where history and politics are discussed, Not to mention the chapters where the amount of lumber needed for the temple is listed. The Bible is both a religious and social/historic document, with plenty of content and structural detail to be understood differently.

so you get to decide which parts of the bible are to be obeyed. how convienient. speaking of christian scholars:

Sometimes Christian apologists say there are only three options to who Jesus was: a liar, a lunatic or the Lord. But there is a fourth option: legend. (Bart Ehrman American New Testament scholar)