The Wiki Leaks

Quote from stock777:

So this wiki guy gets someone with clearance to download gigs of classified data and he puts in on the net for all to see.

Sure sounds like he might be looking at 20 to life cleaning Bubbah's undies.

Not sure I'm amused, I mean what exactly is the point to all this?

Is this something to cheer?

He's not a US citizen, and it's legal to do what he is doing where he lives, so what law has he broken?

The US can certainly call him an enemy combatant, since what he's doing is a form of warfare/espionage, but I don't really see how he could be tried for breaking a US law.

Any legal experts able to clarify this?
 
Quote from BSAM:

Personally, I'm glad WikiLeaks is exposing what our thug government is up to all over the world. I'm tired of these thugs telling us we don't need to know about this and that because of "national security". Pfffft.....Anyone here ever read Animal Farm?

Yeah but it's not that one-sided is it? What if next time there is a just war, wikileaks reveals the landing beaches and battle plans in advance and 50,000 soldiers die as a result? Will you still think it's good then? What if they leak the security codes for the online banking that you use, and hackers swipe everything? Still support it then?
 
Quote from Pekelo:

Moral question of the day:

If modern technology made it possible for the government to spy on its citizens in an unprecedented level, why can't (or shouldn't) the citizen spy on the government???

After all, they are supposed to be working for us....We, the employers of the government should be able to check on our employees' work....

Sure, let's vote for the intelligence services and military to just publish all their secrets and plans online on public websites then. What could possibly go wrong?
 
Quote from Ricter:

Interesting statement, why do you believe that?

There is a long list to back this up.

Off the top of my head examples

The conservatives believe that raising the minimum wage causes or leads to unemployment yet every study out there has proven the opposite.

The conservative will tell you that cutting taxes can pay for themselves but it has been proven they don't.
 
Quote from Ghost of Cutten:

Yeah but it's not that one-sided is it? What if next time there is a just war, wikileaks reveals the landing beaches and battle plans in advance and 50,000 soldiers die as a result? Will you still think it's good then? What if they leak the security codes for the online banking that you use, and hackers swipe everything? Still support it then?

Pffft...Quick...Name the last "just war" we participated in.
That's a stretch from what WL did.
I don't use online banking.

P.S.---Who do you trust more for the truth: WikiLeaks or the thugs running the U.S. government?
 
Quote from Covertibility:

There is a long list to back this up.

Off the top of my head examples

The conservatives believe that raising the minimum wage causes or leads to unemployment yet every study out there has proven the opposite.

The conservative will tell you that cutting taxes can pay for themselves but it has been proven they don't.

2igninr.gif


"In the 1920s, tax rates were slashed 70 percent to less than 25 percent. What happened? Despite the reduction in rates, revenues rose from $719 million in 1921 to $1164 million in 1928, an increase of more than 61 percent.

Kennedy proposed across-the-board tax rate reductions that reduced the top tax rate from more than 90 percent down to 70 percent. What happened? Tax revenues climbed from $94 billion in 1961 to $153 billion in 1968, an increase of 62 percent.

Reagan proposed sweeping tax rate reductions during the 1980s. What happened? Total tax revenues climbed by 99.4 percent during the 1980s. Once the economy received an unambiguous tax cut in January 1983, income tax revenues climbed dramatically, increasing by more than 54 percent by 1989.

According to Treasury Secretary Andrew Mellon:

The history of taxation shows that taxes which are inherently excessive are not paid. The high rates inevitably put pressure upon the taxpayer to withdraw his capital from productive business and invest it in tax-exempt securities or to find other lawful methods of avoiding the realization of taxable income. The result is that the sources of taxation are drying up; wealth is failing to carry its share of the tax burden; and capital is being diverted into channels which yield neither revenue to the Government nor profit to the people."

"The rich pay more when incentives to hide income are reduced.

The tax cuts of the 1920s
The share of the tax burden paid by the rich rose dramatically as tax rates were reduced. The share of the tax burden borne by the rich (those making $50,000 and up in those days) climbed from 44.2 percent in 1921 to 78.4 percent in 1928.

The Kennedy tax cuts
Just as happened in the 1920s, the share of the income tax burden borne by the rich increased following the tax cuts. Tax collections from those making over $50,000 per year climbed by 57 percent between 1963 and 1966, while tax collections from those earning below $50,000 rose 11 percent. As a result, the rich saw their portion of the income tax burden climb from 11.6 percent to 15.1 percent.

The Reagan tax cuts
The share of income taxes paid by the top 10 percent of earners jumped significantly, climbing from 48.0 percent in 1981 to 57.2 percent in 1988. The top 1 percent saw their share of the income tax bill climb even more dramatically, from 17.6 percent in 1981 to 27.5 percent in 1988."
 
Quote from Ghost of Cutten:

Sure, let's vote for the intelligence services and military to just publish all their secrets and plans online on public websites then. What could possibly go wrong?

Maybe the aliens from Area 51 would get freed? :)

Mind you super-duper secrets were not published. A little more transparency wouldn't hurt the government, well, maybe Cheney has to stand trial for treason, but I can live with that....
 
Quote from Ghost of Cutten:

He's not a US citizen, and it's legal to do what he is doing where he lives, so what law has he broken?


The Australian attorney general is "looking into it", though they would have to have him extradited from wherever he is at the moment if they want to charge him with something. I doubt that much is going to come of it. He should be more worried about some extra legal event.
 
Quote from wilburbear:

Yes! Wikileak the FED, the SEC, and HEDGE FUNDS!

Tell your friends. The common man does have power!

Reuters reported:
The founder of whistle-blower website WikiLeaks plans to release tens of thousands of internal documents from a major U.S. bank early next year, Forbes Magazine reported on Monday.

Julian Assange declined in an interview with Forbes to identify the bank, but he said that he expected that the disclosures, which follow his group’s release of U.S. military and diplomatic documents, would lead to investigations.

“We have one related to a bank coming up, that’s a megaleak. It’s not as big a scale as the Iraq material, but it’s either tens or hundreds of thousands of documents depending on how you define it,” Assange said in the interview posted on the Forbes website.

He declined to identify the bank, describing it only as a major U.S. bank that is still in existence.
 
I'm not sure what teen unemployment has to do with the minimum wage but the great recession started in 2007 and all unemployment levels rose across all types of workers. One also has to consider there are retirees going back to work along with illegal immigrants and other people who compete with teenagers for minimum wage jobs. Just because unemployment in the teenager class has risen doesn't mean it is the result of a higher minimum wage.

As for the tax cuts, reality:

The Reagan Tax cuts for the rich

reaganrevenue.png
Source: (Carter, Reagan, Revenue)


One can extrapolate that red trendline out and it has never and can never be matched without reinstating the old tax rates. Tax cuts do not pay for themselves. If the Bush tax cuts expire, watch the budget deficit dramatically shrink.

Facts and reality have a liberal bias.
 
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