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The weekly: Greece to default/restructure THIS weekend? thread
- Thread starter TGregg
- Start date
This discussion is silly. Who is the buyer? The ECB? The IMF? What are they going to do with a Greek Island or a Ruin, or a park? How do they manage it. Will they pay taxes to Greece after they own it? Does it make any money.
The Greek Oil Company, the Greek Port, the Greek electric company may be assets...you have to look at their P&L, Balance Sheet, and assess future profits and operational need and possible efficiencies. They you have to manage them. Good luck seizing the olive coop. What is the legal basis in this kind of self help foreclosure for satisfaction of debt. Does the ECB have an actionable lien that they can execute on in a Greek Court? Without that you have to invade with an army to 'sieze' assets.
Understood properly, the late Sadam Hussien of Iraq executed on a defaulted obligation when Kuwait failed to act in good faith with regard to the debt it owed Iraq for its war on Iran; in further bad faith Kuwait was drilling Iraqi oil across the boarder and selling it in defiance of OPEC quotas which was pushing the oil price down causing a crises in Iraq in servicing its war debt. Saddaam took direct action on the obligations and invaded Kuwait.
France made a similar foreclosure when it occupied the industrial Rohrer region of Germany, when Germany defaulted on its repatriation agreement to pay France for WWI damages. When Germany did not, could not pay, the French invaded and occupied the Rohrer and directed the region's coal and industrial production to France to service the debt.
Is this how you really think the ECB should settle its affairs with Greece? If you made the whole of Greece an occupied protectorate, do you think it would give you a positive cash flow.
Really, this discussion has gotten quite stupid.
The Greek Oil Company, the Greek Port, the Greek electric company may be assets...you have to look at their P&L, Balance Sheet, and assess future profits and operational need and possible efficiencies. They you have to manage them. Good luck seizing the olive coop. What is the legal basis in this kind of self help foreclosure for satisfaction of debt. Does the ECB have an actionable lien that they can execute on in a Greek Court? Without that you have to invade with an army to 'sieze' assets.
Understood properly, the late Sadam Hussien of Iraq executed on a defaulted obligation when Kuwait failed to act in good faith with regard to the debt it owed Iraq for its war on Iran; in further bad faith Kuwait was drilling Iraqi oil across the boarder and selling it in defiance of OPEC quotas which was pushing the oil price down causing a crises in Iraq in servicing its war debt. Saddaam took direct action on the obligations and invaded Kuwait.
France made a similar foreclosure when it occupied the industrial Rohrer region of Germany, when Germany defaulted on its repatriation agreement to pay France for WWI damages. When Germany did not, could not pay, the French invaded and occupied the Rohrer and directed the region's coal and industrial production to France to service the debt.
Is this how you really think the ECB should settle its affairs with Greece? If you made the whole of Greece an occupied protectorate, do you think it would give you a positive cash flow.
Really, this discussion has gotten quite stupid.
M
morganist
Quote from Ed Breen:
The Greek Oil Company, the Greek Port, the Greek electric company may be assets...you have to look at their P&L, Balance Sheet, and assess future profits and operational need and possible efficiencies. They you have to manage them. Good luck seizing the olive coop. What is the legal basis in this kind of self help foreclosure for satisfaction of debt. Does the ECB have an actionable lien that they can execute on in a Greek Court? Without that you have to invade with an army to 'sieze' assets.
This is more what I was thinking of they are selling ports at the moment and some more things too.
That will not make any material difference in their ability to balance thier budget and pay back thier debts. Greece is insolvent, it is backrupt. It does not have the revenue to pay its own current operations on an ongoing basis, let alone retire its accumulated debt. Its revenues are dropping they are not increasing. There is no credible plan to increase revenue. The liquidation of whatever real assets can be sold will not make a dent in the problem. When you are insolvent and you cannot pay your debt back...you do not pay your debt back.
Creditors need to write off the debt and recover what ever they have the legal right to recover. Creditors should not lend any new money without a perfected right to sieze liquid collateral (See Mexican bail out based on oil rights; or consider new loans based on gold or foriegn currency collateral...not likely for Greece). So, current debt is in default and ECB has not written it down, but it bought the bad debt from the Banks. ECB is kidding itself.
Creditors need to write off the debt and recover what ever they have the legal right to recover. Creditors should not lend any new money without a perfected right to sieze liquid collateral (See Mexican bail out based on oil rights; or consider new loans based on gold or foriegn currency collateral...not likely for Greece). So, current debt is in default and ECB has not written it down, but it bought the bad debt from the Banks. ECB is kidding itself.
Did you notice yesteday that the most valuable business in Greece, the Hellenic Coca-Cola Bottling company, announced that it was leaving Greece for a Swiss domicile and a listing on the London exchange. So, much for growth prospects in Greece, so much for increasing Greek revenue. This is a blow to the large labor force that was depending on collecting empty bottles for the deposit refunds. We witness the spectacle of rats fleeing a sinking ship.
M
morganist
Quote from Ed Breen:
Did you notice yesteday that the most valuable business in Greece, the Hellenic Coca-Cola Bottling company, announced that it was leaving Greece for a Swiss domicile and a listing on the London exchange. So, much for growth prospects in Greece, so much for increasing Greek revenue. This is a blow to the large labor force that was depending on collecting empty bottles for the deposit refunds. We witness the spectacle of rats fleeing a sinking ship.
Greece is a sinking ship. They need to leave the Euro.