The War on Christianity

Quote from stockerup:

Even if you consider it a 50-50 chance, it is too big of a chance to take when choosing where you will spend eternity.

You might want to check out the books Lee Stroble wrote" The Case for Christ" and "The Case for a Creator".
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so you choose to believe because you fear. just in case. not very intellectually honest in my book.


Strobel is frankly misleading about his experts' qualifications. While spending paragraphs touting each of his interviewees' "doctorate-level" educations, he fails to point out that most of them do not have doctorates in the fields dealing with the issues on which they were interviewed. Rather, most of them have doctorates in philosophy or theology, and perhaps undergraduate degrees in a related science. Strobel clearly meant to insinuate that he picked doctorate-level experts in the fields dealing with the issues they were interviewed about; but, with a few exceptions, this is not the case. This does not bode well for his claim of standing "in the shoes of the skeptic."

Further, the opinions expressed by his experts are minority opinions in their fields. Of course, minority opinions can and do become majority opinions. But if you are conducting an investigation concerning a particular field of study, you don't simply interview those with minority opinions and treat their opinions as representative of that field. This provides further evidence that Strobel's pretense of playing the skeptic is a complete farce.
http://www.caseagainstfaith.com/articles/strobel_cfac.htm
 
Quote from vhehn:

so you choose to believe because you fear. just in case. not very intellectually honest in my book.


Strobel is frankly misleading about his experts' qualifications. While spending paragraphs touting each of his interviewees' "doctorate-level" educations, he fails to point out that most of them do not have doctorates in the fields dealing with the issues on which they were interviewed. Rather, most of them have doctorates in philosophy or theology, and perhaps undergraduate degrees in a related science. Strobel clearly meant to insinuate that he picked doctorate-level experts in the fields dealing with the issues they were interviewed about; but, with a few exceptions, this is not the case. This does not bode well for his claim of standing "in the shoes of the skeptic."

Further, the opinions expressed by his experts are minority opinions in their fields. Of course, minority opinions can and do become majority opinions. But if you are conducting an investigation concerning a particular field of study, you don't simply interview those with minority opinions and treat their opinions as representative of that field. This provides further evidence that Strobel's pretense of playing the skeptic is a complete farce.
http://www.caseagainstfaith.com/articles/strobel_cfac.htm
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You know, vhehn, you can believe what you want-- that's your prerogative. The fact is, a relationship with Jesus Christ is a personal relationship and it is hard to convey it to someone else--it has to be experienced.

I'm sure that many people have given their hearts to the Lord as a way to escape hell, but escaping hell is only one of the benefits. There are so many other promises that God has given to those who except Him as their Lord and Savior. Deuteronomy 28:1-14 comes to mind right now-- just take a look at it.

As far as Lee Stroble is concerned, I think he gives a very compelling case for Christ, regardless of his sources. I especially found His book "The Case for a Creator" very thought provoking--you might want to check it out if you haven't already.


Anyway, Thanks for the spirited debate-- Vhehn, trendlover, traderNik, and everyone else on this thread. I've got to take off--I've got to go do some Christmas shopping.
 
Quote from stockerup:

You know, vhehn, you can believe what you want-- that's your prerogative. The fact is, a relationship with Jesus Christ is a personal relationship and it is hard to convey it to someone else--it has to be experienced.

I'm sure that many people have given their hearts to the Lord as a way to escape hell, but escaping hell is only one of the benefits.
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if believing is an imaginary deity allows you to cope more power to you. the point we are trying to convey to you is that it isnt based in any fact. its an emotional crutch similar to a child that needs a security blanket.

as far as hell goes i sure wouldnt want to go through life believing in such a tale. it is not real. it is simply the concept of a primitive mind. it is however useful to those in power. the ability to use fear to fill the pews makes their job easier.

do you somehow think you have something that those that argue the other side dont have? i find that many nonbelievers know more about the bible and religion than believers. personally i spent 50 years sitting in pews before i figured out the truth. been where you are done that. use your mind instead of your emotions when you research these things.
 
Quote from stockerup:

I did a research paper in college about the canonization of the New Testament and, after reading tons of articles and books, I read a book that said the reason the 27 books in the New Testament are there is because They WORK. After many generations of being tried and tested, the Books of the Bible bring real truth and Hope to mankind, and they have been proven to work.-- can't say that about any of the other gods you mentioned.
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They work to save the world. But that is not what salvation is all about. The salvation of the world is the saving of problems that cannot be fixed. Rather, salvation is for the mind of the Son of God, who imagines the a world of problems to be his home...who wanders there, born to die, confused, to suffer and die.

As a rule of thumb, when a "Christian" says, "I am saved", s/he is saying that s/he has hope of maintaining a unique persona, ranked according to a heirarchy, invested with a glorified body of sorts. This is to maintain the status quo, what makes the world the world, and what makes the world false, insane, and perpetually problematic. These attributes are projected on Jesus as they are secretly wished for. Hence, the "personal relationship". But these are not the attributes of Christ.

Christ!
 
Please see this link for the most chilling attack yet on our religious freedoms.

It's all here in black and white. If you do not follow these rules they will sue you out of existance. Schools and towns wll collapse under the lawsuits.



http://www.adl.org/issue_education/december_dilemma_2004/




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Introduction
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Religion in the Classroom
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Holiday Assemblies
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Performing Religious Music
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Holiday Displays


 
Quote from trendlover:

Why would a god create people, then put them on a planet, give them free will, then watch to see who make a mistake?
And he put more obstacles in front of some people than others. So mean.
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Maybe God created man in a perfect state so He could have someone to communicate with, but man chose sin through his free will, thus becoming imperfect, and losing the ability to cohabit with a perfect creator.

Maybe just maybe, God made a plan to undo the harm sin has caused man, but then again it's choice is free will.

Free will to accept a gift from God.

So just and yet so forgiving for those that choose.
 
Quote from Wallet:

Maybe God created man in a perfect state so He could have someone to communicate with, but man chose sin through his free will, thus becoming imperfect, and losing the ability to cohabit with a perfect creator.

Maybe just maybe, God made a plan to undo the harm sin has caused man, but then again it's choice is free will.

Free will to accept a gift from God.

So just and yet so forgiving for those that choose.
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If god created perfect state of man, then the free will god gave man would be a perfect free will to be perfect. But god must not be perfect, because he created imperfect free will.
 
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