The War on Christianity

[stockerup]

Quote from vhehn:

primitive man had things happen to him that scared him. things like thunder and lightening,floods,earthquakes,floods, droughts,fire. primitive man had no concept of science and no idea that there could be a natural explaination for these things. he eventually came to associate these things in his mind with gods. the concept was refined until we have what people believe today.
the larger question is why would an educated person still believe these these things today?

Even Einstein concluded there was a beginning in his calculations, and if there was a beginning, then there had to be a beginner.

Educated or not, it's harder to believe that the universe just came into existence on it's own, than to say there had to be a Creator that started everything.

I don't know had God did it, but even the "Big Bang" theory points to a beginning and suggests that the size and mass of something that exploded and thrust forward the universe as we know it was enormous. Nothing could have come into existence like that on it's own; it had to be created and if it was created, then there has to be a Creator.

 

[smilingsynic]

Quote from stockerup:

if there was a beginning, then there had to be a beginner.

Educated or not, it's harder to believe that the universe just came into existence on it's own, than to say there had to be a Creator that started everything.

It is hard to believe that God just came into existence on it own.

If God created the universe, who or what created God?

If it can be said that God was not created, then why is it such a stretch to say that the universe could exist yet not by an act of creation?

 

[stockerup]

Quote from smilingsynic:

It is hard to believe that God just came into existence on it own.

If God created the universe, who or what created God?

If it can be said that God was not created, then why is it such a stretch to say that the universe could exist yet not by an act of creation?

There is a difference:

God was not created; He always was and will always be. He has no beginning or end-- that is why He is GOD.

The universe does point to a beginning, however.

We can not see wind but we can see the after-effects. Same thing is true with God; we know He exists because of what we see He created.

 

[smilingsynic]

Quote from stockerup:

There is a difference:

God was not created; He always was and will always be. He has no beginning or end-- that is why He is GOD.

How do you KNOW God was not created, or that God had no beginning?

Says who?

Postulating an uncreated Creator does not make it so. It is question begging.

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

If there is a war on Christianity, surely if the Christians are fighting in this so called war on Christianity, they are losing such a war.

The explicit instruction by their Master Jesus was to turn the other cheek.

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

At what point was the concept and potential of existence not in existence?

Concepts don't require existence to remain true, especially those true and absolute concepts that are beyond the simple understanding of the duality nature of material existence.

Quote from smilingsynic:

How do you KNOW God was not created, or that God had no beginning?

Says who?

Postulating an uncreated Creator does not make it so. It is question begging.

 

[stu]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

At what point was the concept and potential of existence not in existence?

Concepts don't require existence to remain true, especially those true and absolute concepts that are beyond the simple understanding of the duality nature of material existence.

Not at all. Not in any circumstances. Never can or does existence not exist. Not even conceptually.

Concepts fundamentally require existence to exist. Nothing necessarily requires existence to be true or false, nevertheless existence is essential for anything including concepts to exist or even to not exist.

 

[stockerup]

Quote from smilingsynic:

How do you KNOW God was not created, or that God had no beginning?

Says who?

Postulating an uncreated Creator does not make it so. It is question begging.

smilingsynic, I have to respect you for going deeper in your thinking than many here at ET seem to do; but trying to explain the creation of God is just far too deep for me or, for that matter, anyone.

The issue comes down to what a person chooses to believe. For example: I personally don't believe there is any such thing as a true atheist. Now, there are certainly people out there that have tried to convince themselves there is no God, but deep down they really don't believe that; there are just too many unanswered questions that can not be explained away by happenstance.

The most important thing to consider is the consequences that will result from what you choose to believe. Consider a coin toss: Are the consequences really worth the risk? What if all those Christians are right? The choice is up to every individual to make-- no one can make it for you.

The choice for me is simple: I can either choose life or death. The choice I have made is life and life more abundantly.

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

Concepts which are experienced by and understood by human beings and not dependent on human beings for their existence.

Take away all human beings, the validity of true concepts remain.

Truth is independent and not subordinate to human existence or physical existence, which indicates there is an existence which precedes physical existence.

That existence is eternal, whether you have the faculty to experience it or not.

Quote from stu:

Not at all. Not in any circumstances. Never can or does existence not exist. Not even conceptually.

Concepts fundamentally require existence to exist. Nothing necessarily requires existence to be true or false, nevertheless existence is essential for anything including concepts to exist or even to not exist.

 

[TraderZones]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

If there is a war on Christianity, surely if the Christians are fighting in this so called war on Christianity, they are losing such a war.

The explicit instruction by their Master Jesus was to turn the other cheek.

Funny then, why did people like the apostle Paul and the prophet John the Baptist give such searing defenses. John called the Jewish leadership "a brood of vipers" and "who told you that you could escape the coming destruction" among other strong language.

Turn the other cheek referred to a proper reaction against abusive or cruel behavior, such as if someone forces you to walk one mile, then walk two miles.