Quote from travis:
And yes, back to what jnbadger was saying, I, too, was "inundated with stats which say it is impossible to succeed as a trader", but - even worse than that - I was inundated by relatives and friends, non-traders, telling me "if it was possible everyone would do it". I always thought "how can it not be possible? it seems so easy". Then it wasn't as easy, but now I am saying "how can it be possible?" and even "how can it be legal?". How long will it last? I am feeling a constant anxiety, too, besides the curiosity.
It's a mindset that gets learned. Many people make money "without working" so to speak. Perhaps their income comes from real estate or holding assets that generate a return. A large number of people receive retirement benefits, pensions, annuities and other ways of living without directly working for the money.
The difference is that most of those people feel they "earned" the money by paying into SS or an annuity, by working for their pension, etc. and my feel unable to work as much any more due to age or infirmity or they may have been raised in a family with this type of income so they grew up expecting this.
The emotional difficulty in making big returns in trading is that we forget we "earned" that money by working (as you said) 10 years of research and studying to make that money.
If you focus on the sweat and tears, books, software, time on forums, fighting the current of nay sayers for 10 years then you might realize you definitely earned it.
Quote from travis:
How do you react to making money without working? Do you feel guilty? (I mean, of course you worked non-stop for years on your systems, but now you're making money without working). Other thoughts or psychological aspects you wish to share?
People always feel a void when they have all their material needs met. You hear it all the time from financially successful people. There are famous quotes from Rockefeller, Perot, and many others that say that money doesn't bring happiness.
Many people get to that point and find that they have a "spiritual" need. In other words, they need contentment that comes from non-physical or material pursuits. That's why a majority of truly rich people like the Gates, Rockefeller, and others set up foundations for philanthropy. As the Bible says, "there is more happiness in giving than receiving". That's simply a fact of life.
Interestingly, effectively serving or giving to others to achieve "happiness" can be a challenge. Merely writing a check to a charity usually won't make you sleep any better at night. It's normally only when you personally get involved in helping people that you feel the joy of giving.
If you only "receive" and never "give" that can generate feelings of guilt which stem from greed.
Frankly, if you research and get personal experience you'll find that while giving to others will increase your happiness, people still feel an emptiness.
That emptiness or void comes from having time on their hands to think about bigger questions like, "what's the meaning of life?" Now that they have succeeded at having time to really enjoy life people become increasingly concerned about fatality from old age, ill health, relationship problems and even how short life is due to inescapable death.
I wouldn't bring the next point up except that you yourself mentioned the advantages of being atheist.
Whatever your religion, atheist or otherwise, the fact is that the questions, "why are we here?", "Why do so many people suffer all their lives and die?" "What happens after death?" "Is there really a God who cares?" demand answers.
Most religions fail to answer these questions satisfactorily which leads people to atheism. They reason that if a God existed he wouldn't allow all the suffering in the world.
Unfortunately, just like trading, there are tons of people and countless religions ready to discourage, and nay say that answers even exist or else offer misleading or entirely false answers.
If you're reading this, ask yourself, do you really have good answers to any of those questions?
Most likely not. There are people who have found satisfying answers and enjoy life very much knowing with confidence what the purpose of life is and how to find happiness.
Then, in fact, it matters little how much money you have, you can enjoy life.
Of course, money is useful for many things but not the necessary ingredient. In fact, much research shows that, on average, poorer parts of the world enjoy life more than the affluent.
Quote from travis:
P.S.:
I just read now what Topsurfi wrote, so I am editing my post. Sometimes I think that programmers (he mentions using C+) have more tools, but also more distractions. I taught myself some VBA, and I was forced to keep things very simple and basic. But programmers are going to be so ambitious with the automated platform they're creating, that may lose focus of the trading ideas, busy as they are in programming the fastest and most efficient platform. Maybe they try to make everything faster, whereas the key is be slow. I was forced to come up with slow and infrequent strategies, by commissions, platform (excel), poor programming skills, distance from the exchange. Also, yes, as you say, I am competing with banks and dumb people. Put the banks, too, with the dumb people. Because the fact is the CEO may be ignorant about trading, and may hire bright Harvard graduates who know nothing about trading, either.
So true. I agree will all of this and, as a programmer, I'm certain I have spent countless hours on wasted dead ends. It almost seems that educations and intelligence can work against a person in trading due to the paralysis of analysis. But persistence can pays off regardless your handicaps even if you consider programming skills a handicap.
Well your post is enjoyable for discussing the deeper questions of life after financial success. I can attest to the happiness that comes from volunteer work and the result of time and research to really find the answers to the meaning of life and verifying them which can be compared to "back testing" a strategy. Obviously, it's necessary to have convincing proof along with satisfying answers.
Wayne
