The Unmentioned Risk of Trading Too Small

How much do you risk per trade (approximately)?

  • less than 1%

    Votes: 5 12.5%
  • 1%

    Votes: 9 22.5%
  • 2%

    Votes: 8 20.0%
  • 5%

    Votes: 4 10.0%
  • more than 5%

    Votes: 14 35.0%

  • Total voters
    40
Quote from Visaria:

i risk 0.5% (sometimes less!). The vast majority of my trades are unprofitable. But i have had 100%+ years.

Go figure.

Thanks, ES on my screen. I see.
 
Quote from Visaria:

:confused:

You said go figure. You post in the ES journal, which gave me an idea of the types of setups you trade and hence the reason for your 100%+ years with 0.5% risk.
 
Quote from Stockie:

jack hershey,

I appreciate your feedback.

I'm not sure our perspectives are the same. I swing trade and typically hold for a few days, so managing a number of positions isn't (hasn't been so far) a problem. I don't micro manage intraday. I gather you're capturing moves lasting minutes rather than days.

I position trade stocks, what you call swing trading.
My Universe is filtered so all stocks have the same pattern.


By risk I meant the account proportion lost if stopped out. If we're talking about exposure, then I risk no more than 10% of the account on any position.

I do not use stops but I do know how to use them for doing small trading positions. I am able to easily recognize when a stock I have entered is NOT following the trend it has to for me to make money position trading it. this happens long before there is a consideration of a loss position.

I see what you're saying about late entries / early exits.

Good to hear that. This orientation really compresses the hold period and makes the hold period very effective and efficient

My entries are often too early, and sometimes I even flinch and get out before the eventual "high velocity" part of the move - a problem I need to resolve.

Both of these types of failures will cause emotions. You will feel anxiety, fear and sometimes anger. You stop trading and you go to work to iteratively refine what you are doing. consult the journal entries you have and classify them for each of these problems.

Problem one: Not entering late. Add volume to your panes. Make sure the stock volume has come OUT of dry up (a low volume about 0.25 of daily 65 day average. The stock has to hit .25 by 1 and 1/2 hours into a day.

Problem two: early exit. A stock will reach 1.80 of the 65 day average on the way to peaking price. On any day after that when on a pro rata basis the stock DOES NOT MAINTAIN this excessing volume, then exit.



When I do stay with it I normally get out at a technical target

Price is the dependent variable and setting targets is bullshit of conventional wisdom type thinking. The prior sentence means you are being unnecessarily stupid; stop being stupid as a first step.

or when there's evidence it's not going to get there. This depends on the type of setup.

Make a list of what you call evidence. Be thorough. Then do not ever use any of this in the future. 100 pushups for each violation


Keep daily charts of 6 months. Be sure the slope of the properly drawn RTL is stteep. Be sure the stock moves 20 % per cycle (five cycles minimum in 6 months) above the RTL to the LTL. (they are separated by 20% and the channel volatility.)


I am extremely risk adverse so I do not deal with risk. To assure no risk...

That's a big statement. No risk at all?

Nada... zero

I'm interested, what do you filter on - what are the expressions?

I will post the filter and the math for each of the seven items in 8 posts.

Can you grade your expressions by significance,

Yes I can.

and if so is it your two least significant expressions that are adjustable?

No, it is the MOST signifcant items.



Most people who trade do not concern themselves with what is important. Making money, apparently, is not well understood.

If you're suggesting most people don't properly utilize their capital and aren't efficient at capturing profit from the full capacity of the market, then I'd fall into that category. Irrationality still seeps in, but not so much that I perceive it as a serious problem.

No. All money facets take care of themselves. You will not be trading 100,000 share blocks in the foreseeable future.

What is important is only trading reliable high money velocity stocks and being effective and efficient in rolling from one position holding to another.

Technique and strategy are of paramount importance.

I am speaking to you to tell you you have a poor orientation and you are not as yet thinking purposefully.

When money is taking care of itself, it knows 7 trades of 10% profits in 4 to 6 days each, double capital. It knows there are 7 doublings per year. Since money takes care of itself, you have to get an orientation to be able to participate in the markets.

So far, you have not begun to have an approach that takes the offer of the market.

In ET over a year was spent posting the approach you can use. In addition, calls were made and results were posted. It may be over 1,000 pages but it was worth reading when it was available.


I've enjoyed reading through some of your posts. Cheers.
 
Quote from Stockie:

Is my thinking on this wrong?

It is because you assume that win rate is a stationary random variable. But if for a few months it drops to 0.2 before it goes up to 0.8 for average of 0.5 2% may drive you broke and 0.5% may not.
 
Quote from Stockie:

You said go figure. You post in the ES journal, which gave me an idea of the types of setups you trade and hence the reason for your 100%+ years with 0.5% risk.

LOL, I also post in the CL thread, but actually i trade many different markets and time frames.

The point was really to say that even with a relatively small amount of risk like half a percent, you can make a lot of money over enough trades (assuming you have an edge).
 
Jack,

A bang for buck response, critical but fair and may even have been enlightening.

I accept your criticism about technical targets. It's like going to the beach after learning the weather forecast, which predicts rain at 3 pm. At 3 pm there isn't a cloud in sight, yet I leave anyway.
 
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