The Truth about Daytrading Futures..

[AMT4SWA]

You are right! While evolving our skills we must also increase our level of discipline.

 

[nitro]

I agree with you 100%. But my-oh-my, it is easier said than done!

nitro

Quote from vegasoul:

by the way..I find that some of you still think of trading as your ordinary job(100k per year). I think this sort of mentality is what's limiting most people's results and their motivation to trade.

trader A makes 1 million in 5 years. He makes 1 million in his first year and for the other 4 years.

trader B makes 120k each year, 10k each month, 500 every day, day in day out, nobody is more consistent..
and in 5 years , he "only" makes 600k.

who is better off? A is obviously better off at the end but which trader would u WANT to be??

I would guess most people would choose B EVEN if B make less money. This is exactly the kind of psychological problem that surface when you view trading from "100k per year" perspective.

from a lifestyle/self-estemm perspective, the "k per year" mentality is of course very important to some people. You get to tell other how good you are at trading, how you don't have any losing week. How consistent you are..blah blah blah..

But if you treat trading seriously, none of that crap should come into consideration in your trading. The only thing that matters should be your long-term mathematical expectation.

If anybody comes into the trading arena and is SATISFIED WITH ONLY 100k per year , then I suggest he find something else to do. He is not the risk-taker he think he is. That self-limiting belief is not going to take him anywhere.

 

[illiquid]

To an extent I agree AMT, if one has an edge he or she should only be limited by available liquidity (at least over 100 contracts on ES intraday), and until that point is reached one's gains should be geometric not arithmetic. If the same trader feels stuck at a certain profit per day or month, the issue is more likely psychological in nature.

But AMT has a point, the trader who is always on the lookout for increasing his advantage or adjusting tactics in a changing market is not necessarily overconfident; in fact, you could almost argue that it's the trader who's achieved a level of "satisfaction" from a certain level of gains (say 10k/month) who is the overconfident one.

The issue isn't the total amount of profits that one wants to increase -- that is just a matter of leverage and equity size; it's the continual maximization of one's edge which should be the goal, each and every day, because eventually the market catches up to all edges and neatly erases them over time.

 

[ratso]

Check out:

http://www.eminiblog.com/emini_room.html

There are a number of traders there making consistent profits daytrading the eminis.

 

[dedicated1]

I believe 100% that one can lose 5K(arbitrary number) a day consistently...so why not believe you can make it. Personally, I take Baby Steps tweeking my numbers & working on myself...this is how I progress to new levels.

 

[dbphoenix]

Quote from illiquid:

The issue isn't the total amount of profits that one wants to increase -- that is just a matter of leverage and equity size; it's the continual maximization of one's edge which should be the goal, each and every day, because eventually the market catches up to all edges and neatly erases them over time.

I disagree. It's the continual maximization of one's willingness to adapt and make the most of what the market is willing to give him. If, as you say, the market eventually catches up to all edges, one must be wary of putting one's own edge on life support.

 

[-EntropyTrader]

Many daytraders look at the market as if it were a job to do everyday. They get a sense that they have to earn their salary every single day, they overtrade, and they lose. One think you have to realize is that the overwhelming majority of market moves are just random - not willful. The big money is just waiting for the possibility of loss to be as low as possible before entry. Having patience to wait without an open position provides the best defense and offence.

 

[marketsurfer]

Quote from -EntropyTrader:

One think you have to realize is that the overwhelming majority of market moves are just random - not willful.

it is a matter of perception.

best,

surfer

 

[damir00]

maybe it would be better to say that at times - perhaps lots of times - the aggregate of all the willful market actions can look random. personally i prefer "noisy" to "random" because noisy allows for an underlying signal.

Quote from marketsurfer:


it is a matter of perception.

 

[illiquid]

Quote from dbphoenix:



I disagree. It's the continual maximization of one's willingness to adapt and make the most of what the market is willing to give him. If, as you say, the market eventually catches up to all edges, one must be wary of putting one's own edge on life support.

Sorry for confusion, maximization was in reference to maintaining and adjusting one's system to keep up with market changes, not maximization of size or leverage. But if one has an edge he should not be afraid to raise his size in accordance with his increasing capitall, instead of limiting himself to a certain gain/day or month.