The Trouble With Scribbles

[i960]

Don't even think about size right now. Think about following the plan.

Put the trade on with a 4 pt stop and don't touch it whatsoever until it hits your target or stop. Do not fuck with the trade (even if at a more advanced level you would) after you put it on. The entire point is in you sitting through it, taking some heat, and seeing it hit your target. Your brain needs this as a fear extinguishing exercise. It's not about making small stops work or allowing reentries to work because that fits your personality better. The problem IS the personality and continuing to trade in a way which coddles it only enables fear to continually dominate.

 

[k p]

Don't even think about size right now. Think about following the plan.

Put the trade on with a 4 pt stop and don't touch it whatsoever until it hits your target or stop. Do not fuck with the trade (even if at a more advanced level you would) after you put it on. The entire point is in you sitting through it, taking some heat, and seeing it hit your target. Your brain needs this as a fear extinguishing exercise. It's not about making small stops work or allowing reentries to work because that fits your personality better. The problem IS the personality and continuing to trade in a way which coddles it only enables fear to continually dominate.

Although I do agree with what you say, 4 points is a bit too wide in my opinion, but this should be something that a trading plan would of course solve. But you're right about just having to sit through it. I do see that to be a successful trade, I have to absolutely reinvent myself almost to be the complete opposite of who I am in my everyday life... to take on a different persona if you will.

 

[Redneck]

I have to absolutely reinvent myself almost to be the complete opposite of who I am in my everyday life... to take on a different persona if you will.

As have the vast majority of us (not take on..., but change to)

Now..., it simply a matter of how bad do you want to be a trader

RN

 

[romik]

Kp, out of sheer interest, have you ever sat down to analyse your losing trades and discovered it was a losing trade due to the darn stop placement ie you were stopped, but price carried on in the direction that you have forecasted. Out of every 10 losses how many times that has happened?

 

[k p]

Kp, out of sheer interest, have you ever sat down to analyse your losing trades and discovered it was a losing trade due to the darn stop placement ie you were stopped, but price carried on in the direction that you have forecasted. Out of every 10 losses how many times that has happened?

Excellent question. Yes, I have gone over my trades extensively. Anything more than about 3 points and its best to just get out. Sure that odd trade that is down 4 points can come back to me and end up being a winner, but over the long run, I do see that getting out sooner is better as having to take the extra point loss on a few trades does not outweigh the lone eventual winner. (and of course I would hardly ever let it be a winner given that if it came back to my entry, I would just get out BE and count my lucky stars)

Unfortunately the bigger problem that I also see from the past is getting out simply because I didn't want it going against me again. I could see that I want to put on trades, but I was putting trades on with the hope to not lose. In other words, I would be happy to take a point profit, but so often I would take a 4 or 5 point loss. So I was trading to not lose, but not trading to win. Simply cutting my losses short sooner, and letting some profits run to 10 points has been a big step in the right direction, but its still inadequate.

The biggest problem is that when the day starts out with a couple of losings trades, I go into protection mode and just want to make it back to end up BE for the day, and you know, this is hardly how it ever turns out.

 

[k p]

Now..., it simply a matter of how bad do you want to be a trader

I want it bad. Which is why I have taken all the abuse I've been given in the past, the name calling, etc, pushed it to the side and kept right on going. I might be "spinning my wheels" but I'm not admitting defeat.

 

[i960]

There's simply zero way to become a winning trader until you get to the root of these fear and loss aversion issues. You're not trading to win right now and even if you do *luckily* have a winning streak the damaged psychology is still there. Plenty of people get screwed even with winning trading plans at times but what allows them to bounce back is their confidence in their trading approach and not getting caught in some kind of voodoo trap where they believe the market is out to get them.

Your first confidence building exercise should be putting that trade on and not touching it. You must overcome this - and if you cannot then you have to stop trading.

During this confidence and discipline building phase, if you put that trade on and mess with it any way (even if you know it's going to be a loss) you're only hurting yourself.

 

[Redneck]

want it bad. Which is why I have taken all the abuse I've been given in the past, the name calling, etc, pushed it to the side and kept right on going. I might be "spinning my wheels" but I'm not admitting defeat.

You way is out there - just need to find the damn thing


btw - the abuse - never subsides - mkt is full of it - LOL


Keep on..., keepin on KP

RN

 

[jl1575]

True confidence is built up only when you have a thorough understanding of the market dynamics and you have a reliable profitable system and you can execute it in real time. Winning streak alone wouldn't provide everlasting confidence.

 

[k p]

During this confidence and discipline building phase, if you put that trade on and mess with it any way (even if you know it's going to be a loss) you're only hurting yourself.

I'm for sure not of the frame of mind that the market is out to get me or anything like that. Its simply a stream of price quotes and opportunity that I can choose to either participate in or not. So my head is screwed on straight with regards to that.

I do believe that there is some flow to being able to get out of a trade that isn't working, especially if you expect a level to hold that doesn't and hence there is no sense in a stop getting hit if what you need to see to tell you that the trade isn't working you see. But with a tight 3 point stop, this pretty much won't figure into the equation so you're right. And we are both saying the same thing about how I'm not trading to win, so I'm aware of this... painfully aware!