The top 3 guys who make over 1 million a year at my firm...

Quote from s0mmi:

>> I should be more clear about where my $4k desk comes from.

$2,200 comes just from X_Trader Professional package with autospreader....
$1,100 comes just from CQG charting because I want one for myself only, not shared so I can always leave the login running from home or office.

>> And the rest is office desk and financial news stuff we subscribe too.

>> If you really want to, you can 'downgrade' and drop your desk to like 2.5k/month

>> But even after all of those costs and the little variation of prices you get, if you have less than 5 years experience it is ALWAYS better to trade with a prop firm.

You get I.T. Support. You get risk 24/7 contactable. You get informed about markets rolling over, important holidays, if there's Chinese data over a weekend (you can check all these but sometimes we are so busy trading its hard to keep track of every single thing). We're told about upcoming news/events.

>> It cultivates an environment of learning. Sure, lots of people are secret c*nts and I wouldn't trust them with anything. But you will make a few friends and share ideas, some will progress fast. Hopefully you make nice, generous friends, who will help you out and are honest when you ask them for help. There are some pathetic losers out there who just wanna say "ohhh yeahhh nahh just got long, then got short really" they don't want to explain anything because they're selfish c*nts and don't like helping anybody.

>> The prop firm capital is an extremely beneficial step-up than self-managed capital because of the growth potential factor. The prop firms allow so much more risk to you then what you can get on your own. And probably cheaper brokerage.

Here's the best part. If you are really consistently profitable then you don't really have to beg the bank for more money. In this case, just talk about your confidence and show results to the shop owners and they will always be happy to discuss your performance. If they really believe in you they will bypass some rules here and there and take your risk up by pretty good amounts.

You can't really go to the exchange and beg them for more limits and promise you won't lose money...
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Thanks for reply.....
 
Quote from s0mmi:

Also the most obvious one is they are all spreaders. But this is completely obvious. The biggest outrighter in our firm is lucky to clear 200-400k/year (AUD). Two of the 3 biggest spreaders make 4-5 milli and 8-10 mill a year each
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Just a few observations:

1. From my own personal knowledge, these days it appears that a majority of Chicago prop firm traders are doing some sort of spread or arbitrage or correlation strategy. Please keep in mind that these are primarily futures vs. futures or some sort of futures vs. cash/underlying/physical or futures vs. swaps kind of thing.

2. I don't know of too many firms who are training any more - at least here in Chicago. Most used to. These days it seems that the firm principals want to interview individuals or groups with a strategy or trading system before they consider employing them. The problem that Kingstree or GHCo ran into was that they had everybody at the firm doing essentially the same type of thing in similar markets - and bad days could get really, really bad. Think about the compounded risk of all your employees getting caught the same way and not in a good way. Remember that it is human nature to take quicker profits and let losses run a bit longer. Most traders will actually freeze up when they are printing red in a big way.

3. Equity folks need to keep in mind that CME Firm Electronic Memberships forbid firms from taking employee deposits. It's a different animal entirely. You really can't compare futures prop firms with equity prop firms. Apples and oranges, really.

4. I started my career scalping in the Bond Pit. Several months into things, the best money I ever spent was to buy rounds for a table of floor brokers. What I learned changed my life. I switched clearing firms to TransMarket Group and got in real tight with Ray Cahnman and a few big local spreaders.
 
">> I should be more clear about where my $4k desk comes from.

$2,200 comes just from X_Trader Professional package with autospreader....
$1,100 comes just from CQG charting because I want one for myself only, not shared so I can always leave the login running from home or office."

That's a big nut. TT dropped their prices a few months back and X_TRADER comes with charts.

https://www.tradingtechnologies.com/pricing/

X_TRADER® Pro
$1,200
per month
All of X_TRADER plus ADL®, Autospreader®, Autotrader™, TT API and server-based execution of spreads
and algos.
 
Quote from covered_call:

">> I should be more clear about where my $4k desk comes from.

$2,200 comes just from X_Trader Professional package with autospreader....
$1,100 comes just from CQG charting because I want one for myself only, not shared so I can always leave the login running from home or office."

That's a big nut. TT dropped their prices a few months back and X_TRADER comes with charts.

https://www.tradingtechnologies.com/pricing/

X_TRADER® Pro
$1,200
per month
All of X_TRADER plus ADL®, Autospreader®, Autotrader™, TT API and server-based execution of spreads
and algos.
More...

No that pricing is wrong. You still have various other exchange and license fees to pay which are paid to the Broker (not our prop shop) instead. They make you think that you saved like $500 to $1k U.S. but you only end up saving like $150 because of the weak Aussie dollar as well.

They don't show all the costs there because it's not paid to them and as a sales tactic.
 
Sounds like a hefty piece of change just for charting. Is there something special about their charting package or do spreaders require charts that are not available on packages that cost much less? As I understand it you are executing through TT's XTrader and CQG is simply charting for you.

BTW I'm not suggesting that you should skimp on your tools because it rarely pays, but in the states I don't think many pay $1,100 for their charting package.

Quote from s0mmi:

$1,100 comes just from CQG charting because I want one for myself only, not shared so I can always leave the login running from home or office.
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Quote from Swan Noir:

Sounds like a hefty piece of change just for charting. Is there something special about their charting package or do spreaders require charts that are not available on packages that cost much less? As I understand it you are executing through TT's XTrader and CQG is simply charting for you.

BTW I'm not suggesting that you should skimp on your tools because it rarely pays, but in the states I don't think many pay $1,100 for their charting package.
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>>I like their charts because it has an extremely easy-to-use interface, it is fast timely & efficient. The load-up time is decent. Bringing up new charts is fast and quick. The time & Sales is accurate. The website has decent easy-to-use help pages about creating correlation functions and doing basic tests.

>> Also it is very nice and easy for putting spreads together, researching spreads, generating different spreads using various time-scales, multipliers, and filtering for time zones....

>> Also I have run out of room and I use four 24-inch monitors and they're all stacked top to bottom with X_Trader ladders and charts. I am going to get another 4 soon and that can easily be filled up. It's necessary that you're using a fast, efficient program that's easy to see and lets you do things quickly.

>>The alternative is eSignal. It is a slow piece of garbage. It would save me 70% of my chart cost but I tried it and it's trash. It is slow, very inefficient, and terrible for spreading. You have to manually calculate every single spread using some old school integer functions and learn the coding for it.

>> Also, its user interface is shocking. The website is terrible, you cannot find anything, and its just generally a piece of cheap trash. And then to make things worse, their Time & Sales for eSignal is NOT 100% accurate and misses orders.

Oh, and the 'key codes' for each chart is different and before you type in ANY code for a chart, you need to attach the exchange to the prefix first. It's just generally a huge hassle for nothing.

>> Cheap charts are not worth it to me. I use so many and I enjoy researching ,investigating new exchanges and putting together random spreads over time and observing them.
 
Quote from s0mmi:

>>I like their charts because it has an extremely easy-to-use interface, it is fast timely & efficient. The load-up time is decent. Bringing up new charts is fast and quick. The time & Sales is accurate. The website has decent easy-to-use help pages about creating correlation functions and doing basic tests.

>> Also it is very nice and easy for putting spreads together, researching spreads, generating different spreads using various time-scales, multipliers, and filtering for time zones....

>> Also I have run out of room and I use four 24-inch monitors and they're all stacked top to bottom with X_Trader ladders and charts. I am going to get another 4 soon and that can easily be filled up. It's necessary that you're using a fast, efficient program that's easy to see and lets you do things quickly.

>>The alternative is eSignal. It is a slow piece of garbage. It would save me 70% of my chart cost but I tried it and it's trash. It is slow, very inefficient, and terrible for spreading. You have to manually calculate every single spread using some old school integer functions and learn the coding for it.

>> Also, its user interface is shocking. The website is terrible, you cannot find anything, and its just generally a piece of cheap trash. And then to make things worse, their Time & Sales for eSignal is NOT 100% accurate and misses orders.

Oh, and the 'key codes' for each chart is different and before you type in ANY code for a chart, you need to attach the exchange to the prefix first. It's just generally a huge hassle for nothing.

>> Cheap charts are not worth it to me. I use so many and I enjoy researching ,investigating new exchanges and putting together random spreads over time and observing them.
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And you said you`ve made zero YTD...Ahem...
 
Quote from kid.fx.cross:

what you should be asking, are the top 3 guys always the same three guys? Or does it change every year?
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>> The top 5 guys have been top 5 easily the last 3 years and it has not changed. No-one has come in and fluked a year. No-one has come in and milked one thing enough to make enough to earn themselves anywhere near this spot. And no single announcement or emergency was enough for someone to claim a spot.

They have used more and more size as time went by. No-one has come in and pushed one aside (yet).
 
Thanks s0mmi, highly informative look inside propex. Currently a trainee of this firm. I'm really keen to get consistent trading the ZN/XT spread, apart from tradingeuro/US pre open and cash any nitty gritty tips on what you're looking for? What's your view on Aliom btw? Feel free to PM if not keen to publicize.
 
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