it`s not the matter of collecting in the zone or outside the zone.it`s in the subtleties of switching the modes,cause market basically operates in two modes - continuation and reversal.to spot this subtle mode shift requires years of experience.
The top 3 guys who make over 1 million a year at my firm...
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>> This is the biggest fallacy that new people (trainees especially) have when they hear of the worst experiences of the biggest guys.
Everyone says "ohh it's so easy for him he just NEVER ever gets out. He just averages forever and just refuses to ever get out."
>> Look man, the markets are not like that for anyone. You cannot do that. It will do your ass eventually. They have good talent and obviously are confident in their progression over time.
They are doing things subconsciously, and subtly, that puts them ahead over time. That's how they keep coming back from hits because hits are inevitable in this job. Whatever they're doing, just works. It may have flaws, but they have confidence in it working and their trading ability.
I like to highlight the specific things here, especially the vulnerable weaknesses that some of the best have, because it makes them more human. It means you can do it too. They've proven over time they can do it and they can handle the pressure.
I feel better knowing that they make mistakes, and whenever they find it 'difficult', or to hear that they're struggling (not that I ever do). The game gets really, really depressing when you're trying to do this as a career.
You get immune to the money. And then you start being nervous and edgy at all times. It doesn't matter if I had five months in a row where I made $20k, because that would a pathetic. My ultimate stop is $20k. That's a very bad ratio. Making 1-stop per month that is bound to get tested once a month....
So yes it's a delicate game but definitely not all about the bank-roll and refusal to get out. It's just experience and the hours.
>> This is one of those things that... if you put 4000-5000 hours into trading total, you get the hang of. It's very hard to teach someone. They just have to apply and execute.
i`ve put some 15000+ hours,so my guts work perfectly.way better then any possible indicator...
You are right, i am in the industry and work with a big firm, our trading style is vastly different from whats been discussed here, you find some of the craziest people in the market willing to loose money by random guesses and doing all sorts of crazy things with big money.
not only that i can tell you about some big money managers of Mutual Funds loose heavily day in and day out and adding crazily to their positions and loose more.
The market Concepts and Behavior is all forgotten to them along with basic market operation, again to each their own.
money is a huge difference.back me with a couple of mil,and i`ll be grabbing every freaking wiggle that the market offers.in no time i`ll be among those 3 guys.
I know but i think anyone one can build a big account size for an individual in a few years (3-4)if you start small. this will not happen if you think like all others . for this to happen you need to make constant profits and be consistent month on month for years. this sounds like impossible but can be very much done.
This is the world and how it works, its crazy and unfair. need to outsmart it and beat it. be it a job or any other business or even in trading. there are ways to beat it always.
>> I highly doubt it because if you seriously believe you could return yourself $1 million a year then all you need to do is go to a bank and borrow $200,000 on margin to get access to a sh*t-load of limit contracts and use this money over a few years to start grabbing your millions.
>> I'm not doubting your ability, I'm just saying I've heard easily over 30 people say this to me in person over the past few years and not a single one actually follows through even when the opportunity to slowly build an account is there.
just go and borrow $200K...yeah,no frekn shoiet bro
your very funny guy!why then not just go and borrow a couple of mil,huh?it`s not all that simple.
i`ve been watching and trading FDAX futures for more then two years in demo mode,while i was trading small GC and CL on my live account.
the max size with FDAX futures was 40 contracts,it`s approx $850K to $1M account,to hold it overnight when needed.i was making $250K-$300K per month with almost no DD and the only day i had - $140K loss,was on August 27 or 28 this year,though i got it all back during the next 2 days.so,i`d break the $1M threshold for the year easily,with $1M account.
your very funny guy!why then not just go and borrow a couple of mil,huh?it`s not all that simple.
i`ve been watching and trading FDAX futures for more then two years in demo mode,while i was trading small GC and CL on my live account.
the max size with FDAX futures was 40 contracts,it`s approx $850K to $1M account,to hold it overnight when needed.i was making $250K-$300K per month with almost no DD and the only day i had - $140K loss,was on August 27 or 28 this year,though i got it all back during the next 2 days.so,i`d break the $1M threshold for the year easily,with $1M account.
Quote from Rorschach_test:
just go and borrow $200K...yeah,no frekn shoiet bro
your very funny guy!why then not just go and borrow a couple of mil,huh?it`s not all that simple.
i`ve been watching and trading FDAX futures for more then two years in demo mode,while i was trading small GC and CL on my live account.
the max size with FDAX futures was 40 contracts,it`s approx $850K to $1M account,to hold it overnight when needed.i was making $250K-$300K per month with almost no DD and the only day i had - $140K loss,was on August 27 or 28 this year,though i got it all back during the next 2 days.so,i`d break the $1M threshold for the year easily,with $1M account.
>> Not sure if you're serious or joking? If you do not doubt your ability in making 'millions' then why are you scared about borrowing $200,000. The repayment at the end of a year would be at worst like 10-15%. So by the end of 12-months you would owe $20,000-$30,000 in interest.
You're trying to make millions a year, right? And you won't even take on a fee of $20,000-$30,000?
>> Also I don't think anyone can take you serious because you are talking about results on a paper/demo account. You weren't even trading the real market.
This is the equivalent of paper trading. The real game is not like that. Anyone who has done it will tell you.
>> I just did the basic maths for you. You believe that your 2-year record on a simulator/demo account can generate you millions and you won't take the step to get started with $200,000 borrowed with only $20,000-$30,000/year to be paid.
I know I'm sounding blunt but I've heard this same story over a hundred times before. I have seen geniuses wiz their way through demo and simulator accounts for months and months. They don't have any higher chance of surviving in this field than anyone else.
Live trading experience with real money is the only form of practice and hours that truly count. You said you've got 15,000 hours of experience accumulated but you're talking about a $10,000-$20,000 total account.
>> We all know how intense and difficult that trading can be. If you are nervous about borrowing that money, if you applied at a prop firm and you showed consistent results they would give you more and more size as the months went on in an exponential manner.
I've just given you two clean scenarios and paths to make your millions if you really have the trading ability to do it. Now it's up to you.
First of all, i`m not scared,i simply don`t have access to this kind of money.Though,i have very wealthy friend,some of them the gold miners with the $10M-$15M turnover.But they simply do not believe in this game.To them it is the same as Pachinko.They`d rather blow some $100k on the overseas trip.Funny thing,is that we`ve started our quests almost at the same time on.But it is what it is.
Second,i`m not trying to make millions(where the hell did i say that!),since i do not have millions.I have a small retail account,which is not interesting to anyone.
Again,i never said that demo result wil generate a stream of money,i`m just practicing with big size,while trading live small size.Why not?It`s not prohibited.
And yes,i have a small $20K-$30K account and the 15000+ hours of screen time.Nothing embarrassing,i imagine.You trade millions,well, good for you.Don`t treat all alike,different people - different circumstances.
Second,i`m not trying to make millions(where the hell did i say that!),since i do not have millions.I have a small retail account,which is not interesting to anyone.
Again,i never said that demo result wil generate a stream of money,i`m just practicing with big size,while trading live small size.Why not?It`s not prohibited.
And yes,i have a small $20K-$30K account and the 15000+ hours of screen time.Nothing embarrassing,i imagine.You trade millions,well, good for you.Don`t treat all alike,different people - different circumstances.